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Misslizard
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20 Oct 2017, 8:21 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
If there is a God he made a huge error in allowing mankind dominion over the earth.It was like giving a toddler a priceless Ming vase.What did he think would happen to the earth??


The earth is doing quite well. It wants life and does not care what kind of life is here. We do but we are like an ant on an elephants back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4N ... re=related

Regards
DL

Lol Very good.Thanks for sharing.
It's attachment,I love the diversity of iguanas and other reptiles,many critically endangered.Becuse of my attachment to them,I would like for them to exist.Same for the woods around my house,I know one day in the future it won't look like it does now.But my attachment wants it to exist this way forever.
But we have a responsibility,things like the BP spill in the gulf happened on our watch,we should have to make amends for our mistakes.


We should indeed, but instead of stepping up, we will pass on the problems and the bills to fix them to our children and grandchildren.

I see that as immoral. Do you?

Regards
DL

Yes.We wouldn't put poison in our child's food or bed,yet we are doing just that.And expecting them to clean it up and deal with the mess we have made.


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envirozentinel
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20 Oct 2017, 8:36 am

You are so right as usual, Misslizard. I wonder if we can undo some of the incalculable harm done.


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Misslizard
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20 Oct 2017, 8:54 am

envirozentinel wrote:
You are so right as usual, Misslizard. I wonder if we can undo some of the incalculable harm done.

Some of us are trying,there seems to be more awareness of how priceless clean water is.
People organizing to clean up waterways,more demand for organic produce.I have no idea what can be done about that giant garbage island in the ocean.If we are going to continue to use plastic we need more advances in how to make plastic that is biodegradable,and of course everyone should recycle and plant trees.


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envirozentinel
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20 Oct 2017, 8:58 am

I have daydreams about a type of plastic that can totally dissolve into nothing once no longer used or needed. OK I guess it wouldn't be plastic, but a totally new, bio-friendly product...


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Misslizard
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20 Oct 2017, 9:03 am

envirozentinel wrote:
I have daydreams about a type of plastic that can totally dissolve into nothing once no longer used or needed. OK I guess it wouldn't be plastic, but a totally new, bio-friendly product...

This is hopeful.
https://phys.org/news/2016-03-newly-bac ... ttles.html


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envirozentinel
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20 Oct 2017, 9:30 am

Thank you for the link, I recall seeing something similar recently which probably fed my imagination!


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Misslizard
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20 Oct 2017, 9:34 am

envirozentinel wrote:
Thank you for the link, I recall seeing something similar recently which probably fed my imagination!

You're welcome.The Earth has an amazing ability to heal itself.


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21 Oct 2017, 9:20 pm

Tross wrote:
yelekam wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL


Actually this issue is more contested. Some religious interpreters, such as Sarah and Angelina Grimke, contended that the book of Genesis was mistranslated, and that the meanings of its wording in its original language had the story where god had made Adam and Eve as equals, and the domination of men over women was one of the consequences of the rise of sin.
This.^ I've actually heard that the Hebrew word for day is also the same word for era, but it sounds way more impressive to say God made the world in 7 days, hence why that was chosen for the first English translation and as far as I know has been used for every translation since. Moreover, if a day is defined as a rotation of the Earth as it revolves around the sun, and God created the sun on the fourth "day", are the first three really days?

I'm one of the modern kind of Christians. My church is what's known as a Foursquare church which is a penacostal denomination. I'm an "old Earth" Christian in that I believe in science and things like Evolution, but still believe in God. I don't believe that God gave man "dominion" over woman, nor do I believe he has a problem with female leadership in the church or outside of it. There's a very specific reason why Paul suggested to the church in Colossia that they pull all their female leadership, and there's the fact that Paul wrote letters to specific churches to address specific problems and never intended them to be used as "gospels" or the standard in which all churches eveywhere should be held to. Some may disagree with me, as many people believe context is irrelevant because Paul's letters are in the bible, but I do believe context is important...as is recognizing that translation is more art than science.

I don't know Hebrew or Arabic or Greek, but I have studied some Japanese. I'm not very good at it, and still can't even read a children's manga, but that just goes to show how difficult learning another language is, especially if it's in a completely different language family. I also know that translation is more art than science, and there's a lot of debate on whether translations should be literal, contextual or somewhere in between those two extremes, hence why the bible has so many different English translations. If translating something from any language is prone to inaccuracies, translating something from a different language family altogether and from an ancient dialect to boot is probably really difficult, especially when it comes to precision. Heck, some of the notes in my bible even say "the meaning of the original Hebrew is uncertain".

The point is, the bible is a great book, but we can't always be 100% certain what's being insinuated all the time, and there's no guarantee that even what certain religious establishments tout as the proper interpretation is the real truth. I also don't believe the bible is inherently sexist. It contains accounts of events that happened in a society that was sexist, but that has more to do with the historical context than the actual book itself. Besides, Jesus had women in his troupe and even Paul had women on staff. If Paul's ministry could be thought of as a travelling church, there's enough proof that he's not sexist. Heck, he had a missions team headed by both a husband and wife, and there's no indication that she was second fiddle to her husband in their leadership.

Good points.

I don’t accept the premise of Adam having dominion over Eve as necessarily part of God’s design. Adam’s role is as a chief representative of all mankind, a spokesman if you will. Eve is subservient only in the sense that she was made to be his helper, his mate. She wasn’t taken from his head to rule over him, nor from his foot so he’d rule over her, but from his side so they would work together.

Where God does say that Adam will rule over her and she will desire him is not really a commandment. It’s a prophecy. The side-by-side nature of male-female relations has been disrupted by the fall of creation. God is saying that because Adam and Eve brought sin into the world, one consequence will be the war between the sexes. Both will fight for dominance in the name of “equality.” Or at least that’s our contemporary understanding; however, it along with many other things is constantly evolving. In Biblical times and times since women were traded like property. Even if you do strike a balance and women have opportunities on par with men, there’s still an element demanding more.

OT laws sought to bring that into balance. Even though women were treated like property, under Hebrew law they had certain rights and protections. This made their situation livable. And there are a few indications that it is the woman, NOT the husband, who reigns supreme in the household.

One tradition is that wives, NOT husbands, initiate sex and that husbands should not reject their wives when they they want them.

Christian husbands are instructed to love their wives to the extent they’d sacrifice themselves for their survival. I think we can put the question of Biblical sexual inequality to rest.



GnosticBishop
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26 Oct 2017, 11:26 am

yelekam wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL


Actually this issue is more contested. Some religious interpreters, such as Sarah and Angelina Grimke, contended that the book of Genesis was mistranslated, and that the meanings of its wording in its original language had the story where god had made Adam and Eve as equals, and the domination of men over women was one of the consequences of the rise of sin.


All the holy books, in my view, are myths that have been plagiarized from older myths.
That is the beauty of a myth. You can write your version to say whatever you like.

Christians do not seem to like to wonder why there are two creations of Eve.
One in Gen. 1 and another in Gen. 2.

Christians screwed up badly when they changed the original Jewish view of Eden as where man was elevated, --- to the fall, --- that helped Christians misogyny thrive, in spite of what women thought.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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26 Oct 2017, 11:31 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
[

Only after they ate the fruit, in Genesis 3 does God give man dominion over woman (this could be interpreted to be part of the curse). All three of the parties involved got a different curse, man, woman and the serpent.


True, but Eve was deceived by God's other helper, Satan, and should not have gotten the most punishment.

Scriptures are clear than man brought death to the earth. Not women.

Right?

Regards
DL



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26 Oct 2017, 11:36 am

Tross wrote:
[

The point is, the bible is a great book, but we can't always be 100% certain what's being insinuated all the time, and there's no guarantee that even what certain religious establishments tout as the proper interpretation is the real truth. I also don't believe the bible is inherently sexist. It contains accounts of events that happened in a society that was sexist, but that has more to do with the historical context than the actual book itself. Besides, Jesus had women in his troupe and even Paul had women on staff. If Paul's ministry could be thought of as a travelling church, there's enough proof that he's not sexist. Heck, he had a missions team headed by both a husband and wife, and there's no indication that she was second fiddle to her husband in their leadership.


Yet the bible was used quite a lot to deny women the vote.

How you cannot see a misogynous trend to Christian thinking is beyond me given, he shall rule over your, and do not teach in the church.

Not to mention that women are put with a man's holdings in the 10 commandments.

Would you like to be seen as another persons possession?

Regards
DL



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26 Oct 2017, 11:41 am

Misslizard wrote:
Yes.We wouldn't put poison in our child's food or bed,yet we are doing just that.And expecting them to clean it up and deal with the mess we have made.


We are now smart enough know the harm we do to our next generations but we generally do not seem to car enough to reverse our evil ways.

Perhaps our ears will open to their cries for justice some day.

Regards
DL



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26 Oct 2017, 11:50 am

AngelRho wrote:
[

Christian husbands are instructed to love their wives to the extent they’d sacrifice themselves for their survival. I think we can put the question of Biblical sexual inequality to rest.


Only if you hate women and would deny them equality.

Strange how it took the law of the sea to have men do their duty to the women you say we men should happily die for.

Why do you hate women enough to deny them equality and not fight the religions that have maintained their homophobic and misogynous traditions of oppressing women.

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DL



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27 Oct 2017, 3:55 pm

Who is denying women equality? And give evidence, please.



Misslizard
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27 Oct 2017, 8:21 pm

Christian companies denying a woman's right to birth control.Plus not getting paid the same wage as a male coworker
http://motto.time.com/4797792/donald-tr ... companies/


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AngelRho
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27 Oct 2017, 8:33 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Christian companies denying a woman's right to birth control.Plus not getting paid the same wage as a male coworker
http://motto.time.com/4797792/donald-tr ... companies/

And where is it written in the New Testament that women shouldn’t have birth control or be paid fairly?