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GnosticBishop
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15 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
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In the Bible the "forbidden fruit" might not have been an apple. It's never mentioned what specific kind of fruit it is. It could have been just about any fruit.


What kind of fruit/product does an apple tree give?
What king of fruit/product does an orange tree give?

In anticipation of your answer, you are correct. Apples and oranges.

Note the logic?

Now tell us, what king of fruit/product do you think a tree of the knowledge of good and evil will give you?

I know you can dither out the right answer. If you cannot, P M me as you do not want to shame yourself publicly.

Pardon my mood. I am nicking.

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Of course, the whole Bible is just one big piece of sexist literature, where Eve was punished for eating the forbidden fruit with the pain of childbirth. That's right, childbirth really is a punishment. Go figure.:roll: And women are supposed to be forbidden from doing things like speaking in church. In fact many people who are religious commit sins from the Bible all the time and don't even think of it.

There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed. And in all the art I've seen they have belly buttons. Why would they have belly buttons if they were the first man and woman on earth? :)



You are right and show good logic.

That is why I did not tolerate your first statement well.

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DL



BirdInFlight
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15 Oct 2017, 12:28 pm

If you're talking about "logic". . . you do realize none of this stuff actually happened?



Misslizard
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15 Oct 2017, 12:37 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
If there is a God he made a huge error in allowing mankind dominion over the earth.It was like giving a toddler a priceless Ming vase.What did he think would happen to the earth??


The earth is doing quite well. It wants life and does not care what kind of life is here. We do but we are like an ant on an elephants back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4N ... re=related

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DL

Lol Very good.Thanks for sharing.
It's attachment,I love the diversity of iguanas and other reptiles,many critically endangered.Becuse of my attachment to them,I would like for them to exist.Same for the woods around my house,I know one day in the future it won't look like it does now.But my attachment wants it to exist this way forever.
But we have a responsibility,things like the BP spill in the gulf happened on our watch,we should have to make amends for our mistakes.


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KimD
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15 Oct 2017, 12:43 pm

The biggest error here is taking the Bible (or pretty much any sacred text) literally.



naturalplastic
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15 Oct 2017, 2:04 pm

The original post ignores one obvious thing, and then it holds up another obvious thing and declares it not obvious.

The obvious thing being ignored is - in the usual interpretation of the story- which is that it was all Eve's fault.
That brings me to the obvious thing that the OP thinks is NOT obvious- that the story is sexist.

Well Friggin DUHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh! Obviously the story is sexist.

Its always the ladies who stir up the trouble. The little girl Pandora and her box did it in Greek mythology.

And in the Bible Eve harkens unto the serpent, decides it would be fun to eat the fruit. And she THEN persuaded Adam to go along with the idea. And that got them both booted out of paradise. So Adam's mistake was listening to a chick.

Or that's the usual interpretation of the story.

My disagreement with the original post is that the Sexism is somehow contradicts the rest of the story. The sexism of the story is in fact perfectly with in what little internal logic the story has.

When they talk about Adam causing us original sin its Adam as opposed to Christ (Adam got us all into this mess, and we need Christ to get us all out of it). Not Adam as opposed to Eve.

The couple were both screw ups. But she was a little bit more culpable (according the story and its usual interpretation- not my opinion). So both got their asses kicked - became mortals and had to work for a living etc. But she did get a few more negative perks: pain in child birth, and yes- she has to take orders from Adam. But that's consistant with the story.

And even the snake got punished. God took his limbs away. And eve and her daughters all beat him with brooms for ever after.



Misslizard
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15 Oct 2017, 2:20 pm

/\Christians did the broom beating.Others revered the serpent and sprinkled saffron and other offerings opon their heads.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Panchami


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RetroGamer87
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15 Oct 2017, 3:47 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
In the Bible the "forbidden fruit" might not have been an apple. It's never mentioned what specific kind of fruit it is. It could have been just about any fruit.

Of course, the whole Bible is just one big piece of sexist literature, where Eve was punished for eating the forbidden fruit with the pain of childbirth. That's right, childbirth really is a punishment. Go figure.:roll: And women are supposed to be forbidden from doing things like speaking in church. In fact many people who are religious commit sins from the Bible all the time and don't even think of it.

There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed. And in all the art I've seen they have belly buttons. Why would they have belly buttons if they were the first man and woman on earth? :)


Damn right the Bible is sexist but it's not all literature. The Bible is also a sexist book of law. According to Biblical law, in some scenarios rape is legal.

So the next time some Bible thumper tells you our laws are based on the Bible or all morality flows from the Bible or we need the Bible in public schools to teach kids morality, remember that the Bible is one of the most immoral books ever written because it says rape should be legal.


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XFilesGeek
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15 Oct 2017, 4:59 pm

God erred when he made humans.

He should have stopped when he made dogs, and gave them dominion over the earth.


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GnosticBishop
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16 Oct 2017, 9:20 am

BirdInFlight wrote:
If you're talking about "logic". . . you do realize none of this stuff actually happened?


Christians believe it and have made women second class citizens thanks to their corrupted view of Eden.

That is why I am highlighting the injustice of their beliefs.

Ignore that harm to women if you like like, just because you do not want to opine on the morality of delusional Christian beliefs.

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DL



GnosticBishop
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16 Oct 2017, 9:23 am

Misslizard wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
If there is a God he made a huge error in allowing mankind dominion over the earth.It was like giving a toddler a priceless Ming vase.What did he think would happen to the earth??


The earth is doing quite well. It wants life and does not care what kind of life is here. We do but we are like an ant on an elephants back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4N ... re=related

Regards
DL

Lol Very good.Thanks for sharing.
It's attachment,I love the diversity of iguanas and other reptiles,many critically endangered.Becuse of my attachment to them,I would like for them to exist.Same for the woods around my house,I know one day in the future it won't look like it does now.But my attachment wants it to exist this way forever.
But we have a responsibility,things like the BP spill in the gulf happened on our watch,we should have to make amends for our mistakes.


We should indeed, but instead of stepping up, we will pass on the problems and the bills to fix them to our children and grandchildren.

I see that as immoral. Do you?

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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16 Oct 2017, 9:25 am

KimD wrote:
The biggest error here is taking the Bible (or pretty much any sacred text) literally.


Exactly, yet Christians and Muslims do and we have reaped the rewards in human live because of their foolish and brain killing use of literal reading of myths.

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DL



GnosticBishop
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16 Oct 2017, 9:31 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The original post ignores one obvious thing, and then it holds up another obvious thing and declares it not obvious.

The obvious thing being ignored is - in the usual interpretation of the story- which is that it was all Eve's fault.
That brings me to the obvious thing that the OP thinks is NOT obvious- that the story is sexist.

Well Friggin DUHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh! Obviously the story is sexist.

Its always the ladies who stir up the trouble. The little girl Pandora and her box did it in Greek mythology.

And in the Bible Eve harkens unto the serpent, decides it would be fun to eat the fruit. And she THEN persuaded Adam to go along with the idea. And that got them both booted out of paradise. So Adam's mistake was listening to a chick.

Or that's the usual interpretation of the story.

My disagreement with the original post is that the Sexism is somehow contradicts the rest of the story. The sexism of the story is in fact perfectly with in what little internal logic the story has.

When they talk about Adam causing us original sin its Adam as opposed to Christ (Adam got us all into this mess, and we need Christ to get us all out of it). Not Adam as opposed to Eve.

The couple were both screw ups. But she was a little bit more culpable (according the story and its usual interpretation- not my opinion). So both got their asses kicked - became mortals and had to work for a living etc. But she did get a few more negative perks: pain in child birth, and yes- she has to take orders from Adam. But that's consistant with the story.

And even the snake got punished. God took his limbs away. And eve and her daughters all beat him with brooms for ever after.


You misrepresent what the bible says.

It clearly blames Adam sin and not Eve's deception for the fall.
Eve could not help but be deceived by Satan, whom God had put right there with her.

You said Adam was persuaded by Eve and that is false.

Get the quotes and make your case or retract that lie.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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16 Oct 2017, 9:35 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
In the Bible the "forbidden fruit" might not have been an apple. It's never mentioned what specific kind of fruit it is. It could have been just about any fruit.

Of course, the whole Bible is just one big piece of sexist literature, where Eve was punished for eating the forbidden fruit with the pain of childbirth. That's right, childbirth really is a punishment. Go figure.:roll: And women are supposed to be forbidden from doing things like speaking in church. In fact many people who are religious commit sins from the Bible all the time and don't even think of it.

There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed. And in all the art I've seen they have belly buttons. Why would they have belly buttons if they were the first man and woman on earth? :)


Damn right the Bible is sexist but it's not all literature. The Bible is also a sexist book of law. According to Biblical law, in some scenarios rape is legal.

So the next time some Bible thumper tells you our laws are based on the Bible or all morality flows from the Bible or we need the Bible in public schools to teach kids morality, remember that the Bible is one of the most immoral books ever written because it says rape should be legal.


And that genocide, and child torture and killing is ok because their God did it.

Watch the movie, --- God on trial, --- and see why the Jews rejected Yahweh and found him guilty of the atrocities that Christian love God for.

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DL



RetroGamer87
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16 Oct 2017, 4:13 pm

Misslizard wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
If there is a God he made a huge error in allowing mankind dominion over the earth.It was like giving a toddler a priceless Ming vase.What did he think would happen to the earth??


The earth is doing quite well. It wants life and does not care what kind of life is here. We do but we are like an ant on an elephants back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4N ... re=related

Regards
DL

Lol Very good.Thanks for sharing.
It's attachment,I love the diversity of iguanas and other reptiles,many critically endangered.Becuse of my attachment to them,I would like for them to exist.Same for the woods around my house,I know one day in the future it won't look like it does now.But my attachment wants it to exist this way forever.
But we have a responsibility,things like the BP spill in the gulf happened on our watch,we should have to make amends for our mistakes.


This brings to mind an old saying

We Do Not Inherit the Earth from Our Ancestors; We Borrow It from Our Children


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yelekam
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17 Oct 2017, 7:15 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL


Actually this issue is more contested. Some religious interpreters, such as Sarah and Angelina Grimke, contended that the book of Genesis was mistranslated, and that the meanings of its wording in its original language had the story where god had made Adam and Eve as equals, and the domination of men over women was one of the consequences of the rise of sin.



RetroGamer87
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18 Oct 2017, 5:28 am

yelekam wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL


Actually this issue is more contested. Some religious interpreters, such as Sarah and Angelina Grimke, contended that the book of Genesis was mistranslated, and that the meanings of its wording in its original language had the story where god had made Adam and Eve as equals, and the domination of men over women was one of the consequences of the rise of sin.


Yes I just read through Genesis 1, 2 and 3 to confirm. In Genesis 1 and 2 God gives man dominion over the animals but there is no mention of man having dominion over woman (however, Genesis 2 says woman was created to be man's "helper".

Only after they ate the fruit, in Genesis 3 does God give man dominion over woman (this could be interpreted to be part of the curse). All three of the parties involved got a different curse, man, woman and the serpent.


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