Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?
11 Nov 2017, 10:10 pm
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.
Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.
As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?
They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.
Regards
DL
So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.
RetroGamer87
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,970
Location: Adelaide, Australia
11 Nov 2017, 10:53 pm
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.
Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.
As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?
They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.
Regards
DL
So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.
What's so bad about being a caveman? Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.
_________________
The days are long, but the years are short
12 Nov 2017, 9:18 am
RetroGamer87 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Before you start a revolution I suggest you read Animal Farm.
I may not get what you got from it.
Just look at how many theists become atheists after reading the bible.
If you have a message to say to those here, say it my friend.
Regards
DL
Animal farm depicts how easily those who start a revolution with intent to build a perfect society can fall into the same corruption as the rulers they rebelled against.
True, but there are success stories like the French Revolution that arguably led to Western democracy and the U.S. civil war that ended slavery.
I hope you would not want slavery to still be with us or no democratic system in the world.
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 9:32 am
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.
Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.
As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?
They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.
Regards
DL
So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.
Hmm.
The USSR beat us to space.
I do not argue against capitalism. I do argue against the toxic capitalism that created banana republics and does not really help the country that is subjected to toxic capitalism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozOiZAK9lQ
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 10:03 am
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
But the money doesn't do nothing if its sitting in a bank account the bank will be loaning it out, if its invested it will be creating jobs and if its spent its going back into the economy money is never really static. Poverty is the natural state of humanity, since we have started to become capitalist since the industrial revolution we have not only become wealthier but also more free to the point that never in any society at any point in history have people been better off than they have in western capitalist countries. Poverty is not the fault of capitalist its the fault of the parents who choose to have children they cannot look after.
Poverty is not the natural state of humanity.
As to children. Have you not noticed how capitalism has Western nations not reproducing enough to maintain their population?
They do not do so, in part, because of the costs involved and the fact that the rich are hoarding instead of using a trickle up ideology that would stabilize our socio economic demographic pyramid.
Regards
DL
So cavemen were not in poverty? All the wealth we have comes from innovation, capitalism has proven to be the best model for innovation.
Hmm.
The USSR beat us to space.
I do not argue against capitalism. I do argue against the toxic capitalism that created banana republics and does not really help the country that is subjected to toxic capitalism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozOiZAK9lQ
Regards
DL
Yes the USSR got to space but how many died of starvation? Capitalism prioritises needs over showing off.
12 Nov 2017, 10:07 am
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes the USSR got to space but how many died of starvation? Capitalism prioritises needs over showing off.
I think the priority of any system is profit.
The need capitalism focuses on does not help when it goes to toxic capitalism as it is too often pushed to today.
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 10:16 am
Approaching this on an individual basis rather than a class warfare basis ...
Yes, I have in fact witnessed how people who hoarded food and invested money in prepping
by buying land in a "safe" area to meet the end of the world
completely did shoot themselves in the foot.
One of these people is an ex-friend of mine.
She filled her basement with food. She filled her kitchen and dining room with food.
And guess what happened?
1) Some of it literally rotted.
2) Some of it went unused past the expiration date.
3) It attracted an infestation of bugs.
4) If I remember right, eventually even mice came and ate some of it.
5) Result: Waste of money to feed vermin instead of actual human beings.
Then there was a prepper who invested thousands of dollars in moving out to the country,
only to have the deal fall through such that he lost all the money he'd put in ...
His investment was made because he was afraid society was about to collapse any time now.
Then there was an elderly couple who had been prepping out in the country on a farm.
One of them got sick and they ended up unable to tend to the farm.
Now maybe they did everything right, wise and practical ... that said,
they couldn't predict the future ... so even if they made all the right decisions,
any security they may have placed in their possessions was false hope.
(I don't know them personally so I won't judge.)
It comes down to wisdom, prudence, and generosity ...
Stocking up in moderation can be helpful ... a few weeks' supply of food and water in case of a storm
is recommended if you can do it.
Overdoing it is foolish.
Doing it greedily goes beyond foolish and is evil.
Doing it based on fear, especially when the reality is you can't afford it and you spend above and beyond the budget you need to live your normal life, is stupid.
In my opinion, anyone who wants to stock up supplies for themselves "for the future"
(which may never happen the way they envision it)
should also be giving to people who are in need today.
12 Nov 2017, 10:24 am
the_phoenix wrote:
Approaching this on an individual basis rather than a class warfare basis ...
Yes, I have in fact witnessed how people who hoarded food and invested money in prepping
by buying land in a "safe" area to meet the end of the world
completely did shoot themselves in the foot.
One of these people is an ex-friend of mine.
She filled her basement with food. She filled her kitchen and dining room with food.
And guess what happened?
1) Some of it literally rotted.
2) Some of it went unused past the expiration date.
3) It attracted an infestation of bugs.
4) If I remember right, eventually even mice came and ate some of it.
5) Result: Waste of money to feed vermin instead of actual human beings.
Then there was a prepper who invested thousands of dollars in moving out to the country,
only to have the deal fall through such that he lost all the money he'd put in ...
His investment was made because he was afraid society was about to collapse any time now.
Then there was an elderly couple who had been prepping out in the country on a farm.
One of them got sick and they ended up unable to tend to the farm.
Now maybe they did everything right, wise and practical ... that said,
they couldn't predict the future ... so even if they made all the right decisions,
any security they may have placed in their possessions was false hope.
(I don't know them personally so I won't judge.)
It comes down to wisdom, prudence, and generosity ...
Stocking up in moderation can be helpful ... a few weeks' supply of food and water in case of a storm
is recommended if you can do it.
Overdoing it is foolish.
Doing it greedily goes beyond foolish and is evil.
Doing it based on fear, especially when the reality is you can't afford it and you spend above and beyond the budget you need to live your normal life, is stupid.
In my opinion, anyone who wants to stock up supplies for themselves "for the future"
(which may never happen the way they envision it)
should also be giving to people who are in need today.
Yes, I have in fact witnessed how people who hoarded food and invested money in prepping
by buying land in a "safe" area to meet the end of the world
completely did shoot themselves in the foot.
One of these people is an ex-friend of mine.
She filled her basement with food. She filled her kitchen and dining room with food.
And guess what happened?
1) Some of it literally rotted.
2) Some of it went unused past the expiration date.
3) It attracted an infestation of bugs.
4) If I remember right, eventually even mice came and ate some of it.
5) Result: Waste of money to feed vermin instead of actual human beings.
Then there was a prepper who invested thousands of dollars in moving out to the country,
only to have the deal fall through such that he lost all the money he'd put in ...
His investment was made because he was afraid society was about to collapse any time now.
Then there was an elderly couple who had been prepping out in the country on a farm.
One of them got sick and they ended up unable to tend to the farm.
Now maybe they did everything right, wise and practical ... that said,
they couldn't predict the future ... so even if they made all the right decisions,
any security they may have placed in their possessions was false hope.
(I don't know them personally so I won't judge.)
It comes down to wisdom, prudence, and generosity ...
Stocking up in moderation can be helpful ... a few weeks' supply of food and water in case of a storm
is recommended if you can do it.
Overdoing it is foolish.
Doing it greedily goes beyond foolish and is evil.
Doing it based on fear, especially when the reality is you can't afford it and you spend above and beyond the budget you need to live your normal life, is stupid.
In my opinion, anyone who wants to stock up supplies for themselves "for the future"
(which may never happen the way they envision it)
should also be giving to people who are in need today.
I honestly thought Prepping was just a hobby, I didn't think people actually did because they actually believed society was going to collapse.
12 Nov 2017, 10:28 am
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 10:33 am
the_phoenix wrote:
Approaching this on an individual basis rather than a class warfare basis ...
Yes, I have in fact witnessed how people who hoarded food and invested money in prepping
by buying land in a "safe" area to meet the end of the world
completely did shoot themselves in the foot.
One of these people is an ex-friend of mine.
She filled her basement with food. She filled her kitchen and dining room with food.
And guess what happened?
1) Some of it literally rotted.
2) Some of it went unused past the expiration date.
3) It attracted an infestation of bugs.
4) If I remember right, eventually even mice came and ate some of it.
5) Result: Waste of money to feed vermin instead of actual human beings.
Then there was a prepper who invested thousands of dollars in moving out to the country,
only to have the deal fall through such that he lost all the money he'd put in ...
His investment was made because he was afraid society was about to collapse any time now.
Then there was an elderly couple who had been prepping out in the country on a farm.
One of them got sick and they ended up unable to tend to the farm.
Now maybe they did everything right, wise and practical ... that said,
they couldn't predict the future ... so even if they made all the right decisions,
any security they may have placed in their possessions was false hope.
(I don't know them personally so I won't judge.)
It comes down to wisdom, prudence, and generosity ...
Stocking up in moderation can be helpful ... a few weeks' supply of food and water in case of a storm
is recommended if you can do it.
Overdoing it is foolish.
Doing it greedily goes beyond foolish and is evil.
Doing it based on fear, especially when the reality is you can't afford it and you spend above and beyond the budget you need to live your normal life, is stupid.
In my opinion, anyone who wants to stock up supplies for themselves "for the future"
(which may never happen the way they envision it)
should also be giving to people who are in need today.
Yes, I have in fact witnessed how people who hoarded food and invested money in prepping
by buying land in a "safe" area to meet the end of the world
completely did shoot themselves in the foot.
One of these people is an ex-friend of mine.
She filled her basement with food. She filled her kitchen and dining room with food.
And guess what happened?
1) Some of it literally rotted.
2) Some of it went unused past the expiration date.
3) It attracted an infestation of bugs.
4) If I remember right, eventually even mice came and ate some of it.
5) Result: Waste of money to feed vermin instead of actual human beings.
Then there was a prepper who invested thousands of dollars in moving out to the country,
only to have the deal fall through such that he lost all the money he'd put in ...
His investment was made because he was afraid society was about to collapse any time now.
Then there was an elderly couple who had been prepping out in the country on a farm.
One of them got sick and they ended up unable to tend to the farm.
Now maybe they did everything right, wise and practical ... that said,
they couldn't predict the future ... so even if they made all the right decisions,
any security they may have placed in their possessions was false hope.
(I don't know them personally so I won't judge.)
It comes down to wisdom, prudence, and generosity ...
Stocking up in moderation can be helpful ... a few weeks' supply of food and water in case of a storm
is recommended if you can do it.
Overdoing it is foolish.
Doing it greedily goes beyond foolish and is evil.
Doing it based on fear, especially when the reality is you can't afford it and you spend above and beyond the budget you need to live your normal life, is stupid.
In my opinion, anyone who wants to stock up supplies for themselves "for the future"
(which may never happen the way they envision it)
should also be giving to people who are in need today.
Insightful. Thanks.
I agree that there is little to no benefit to hoarding, especially cash which then cannot get value added to it.
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 10:34 am
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
Such as....
12 Nov 2017, 10:50 am
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
Such as....
Such as everywhere we pull profits out of and bring home instead of putting a fair share into the country we have taken them out of.
Toxic capitalism adds to the inequality of nations instead of bringing both closer by sharing profits.
That is why there are still third world nations instead of us pulling everyone into a second of first world.
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 10:52 am
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
Such as....
Such as everywhere we pull profits out of and bring home instead of putting a fair share into the country we have taken them out of.
Toxic capitalism adds to the inequality of nations instead of bringing both closer by sharing profits.
That is why there are still third world nations instead of us pulling everyone into a second of first world.
Regards
DL
That's not an answer can you name a specific country that has had mass starvation because it was capitalist?
12 Nov 2017, 11:14 am
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
Such as....
Such as everywhere we pull profits out of and bring home instead of putting a fair share into the country we have taken them out of.
Toxic capitalism adds to the inequality of nations instead of bringing both closer by sharing profits.
That is why there are still third world nations instead of us pulling everyone into a second of first world.
Regards
DL
That's not an answer can you name a specific country that has had mass starvation because it was capitalist?
Not necessarily starvation. That link speaks of Iraq but hints at everywhere where we have military bases.
You might also look at India and Iran where toxic capitalism and it's effects and atrocities are still being spoken of today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4
Regards
DL
12 Nov 2017, 11:18 am
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Yes and people will spend money on things they need more hence capitalist countries being able to feed their people while millions starved in communist countries whilst they wasted time on resources going into space as an act of propaganda.
I guess that you can ignore that the same conditions and capitalist mind set that has also led to much hardship in countries that have had toxic capitalism impoverish them.
Regards
DL
Such as....
Such as everywhere we pull profits out of and bring home instead of putting a fair share into the country we have taken them out of.
Toxic capitalism adds to the inequality of nations instead of bringing both closer by sharing profits.
That is why there are still third world nations instead of us pulling everyone into a second of first world.
Regards
DL
That's not an answer can you name a specific country that has had mass starvation because it was capitalist?
Not necessarily starvation. That link speaks of Iraq but hints at everywhere where we have military bases.
You might also look at India and Iran where toxic capitalism and it's effects and atrocities are still being spoken of today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4
Regards
DL
Colonialism is not capitalism. Capitalism is about property rights, colonialism is about stealing.
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