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Drake
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11 Nov 2017, 8:31 am

I'm not trying to decide what's right and wrong with the fat / unemployed posts, context matters and I'd need to see the relevant thread to do that.

But it seems to me calling the unemployed losers is worse than calling the fat losers. Your weight is entirely in your hands. Whether you have a job is not, you can take steps to improve your chances, but otherwise it's entirely in someone else's hands. Something we as autistics are especially keenly aware of. It doesn't matter if we're well suited to a job if we can't pass the interview. So we're losers for that? Most people here will be losers by that definition as most autistics are unemployed.



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 8:37 am

Drake wrote:
Whether you have a job is not, you can take steps to improve your chances, but otherwise it's entirely in someone else's hands.

Not according to some people. I've heard people chastise all unemployed for "refusing to work" as though there's no such thing as a person willing to work who couldn't find a job.


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XFilesGeek
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11 Nov 2017, 10:49 am

B19 wrote:
Size-ism like ageism can be deeply offensive and those that promote it in simplistic binaries eg (me fit as Tarzan, you are a fat loser, so you are a less worthy person than me) seem unaware of the lack of nuance and egoism represented in their comments.


Except that I didn't see anyone in the aforementioned thread calling unemployed men "losers."


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The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Nov 2017, 12:17 pm

B19 wrote:
Size-ism like ageism can be deeply offensive and those that promote it in simplistic binaries eg (me fit as Tarzan, you are a fat loser, so you are a less worthy person than me) seem unaware of the lack of nuance and egoism represented in their comments.


You know B19; men have other men-topics to talk about which are entirely not related to women. So this is no excuse for not having men's forum.

Surprise!



XFilesGeek
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11 Nov 2017, 12:49 pm

^ The only reason we don't have a Men's Forum is because Alex doesn't want one.

I'd be fine with it. Seeing as most of WPs raving misogynists have long since departed (or been booted), I'm sure there's a lot of useful conversations that can occur.


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Temeraire
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11 Nov 2017, 5:59 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
^ The only reason we don't have a Men's Forum is because Alex doesn't want one.

I'd be fine with it. Seeing as most of WPs raving misogynists have long since departed (or been booted), I'm sure there's a lot of useful conversations that can occur.


So why does Alex not want one?

Is there somewhere where he explains this so I can go have a read?



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 6:07 pm

It's not like he specifically decided not to make one. Maybe he just didn't think of it because he's rather busy most of the time. Are men even considered to be a group?


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sly279
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11 Nov 2017, 9:41 pm

Temeraire wrote:
B19 wrote:
Size-ism like ageism can be deeply offensive and those that promote it in simplistic binaries eg (me fit as Tarzan, you are a fat loser, so you are a less worthy person than me) seem unaware of the lack of nuance and egoism represented in their comments.


Hi B19,

I agree with you, as you know about some of my beliefs already, but the guy does have a point - isn't me in a job and rich, you a poor loser just as inappropriate because it is offensive to those who cannot get a job or work full-time?

If one is chastised the other should be spoken to as well? Although, I do not know if this has already happened and apologise if this has already happened.

One is an opinion about appearance the other about status. Both worthy of considering or neither worth considering.

Justice and fairness should be practised with all.

This is the point I made in the first place about men having somewhere to go and be themselves just as women can. If a women ventures into this zone then at her own peril it be.

This is what is wrong with society at large. It’s being geared more towards helping womenproblems then men problems.
The Who dont hame fat women movement only helped fat wome. There was the movement to change how women are valued, but no movement to change how men are valued. Feminism has always fought to make women have more powe then men not equal. Or they’d fought to get rid of valuing men based on their job and income, they’d fought to not shame fat guys and to make being fat a s a guy social acceptable, there are no such movements. Women at large are content with how fat men are shamed and how men are valued based on their income status which is sad. For men not much has changed since 1950s and not much changed then from ,1780s. It’s be Stagnant but technology has greatly changed the way the world works, along with feminism making it so women work too, means far less good jobs for men. There isn’t enough good paying jobs for all men it’s impossible, every woman that works means a man can’t work. I’m all for women working but we need them to adjust the value of men based on their job and income. This isn’t 1950. It was a lot easier for men in 1950 as most women didn’t work. So it was easy to have a better job then most women. We as society really need to change how we value men.



sly279
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11 Nov 2017, 9:45 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
It's not like he specifically decided not to make one. Maybe he just didn't think of it because he's rather busy most of the time. Are men even considered to be a group?

Um yess it’s exactly that, apparently we use to have one, Alex removed it and doesn’t want it back.

Men’s forum would be like women’s so itds be a place with limited women posts wheremen could safely talks without women posting mean responses.

Men are allowed to post in the women’s section under limited basis and it can only be positive and can’t disagree with women posting there. Men would be same but for men.



RetroGamer87
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11 Nov 2017, 9:58 pm

sly279 wrote:
There isn’t enough good paying jobs for all men it’s impossible, every woman that works means a man can’t work. I’m all for women working but we need them to adjust the value of men based on their job and income. This isn’t 1950. It was a lot easier for men in 1950 as most women didn’t work. So it was easy to have a better job then most women. We as society really need to change how we value men.

More dual income couples has greatly increased the average household income. Higher household incomes mean some commodities get more expensive, as people can now afford to pay more and they'll charge as much as they can get away with.

The ubiquity of dual income couples means other couples have to be dual income to keep up.

It also means single people will be at a monetary disadvantage unless they work two full time jobs.


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XFilesGeek
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12 Nov 2017, 3:57 pm

Temeraire wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
^ The only reason we don't have a Men's Forum is because Alex doesn't want one.

I'd be fine with it. Seeing as most of WPs raving misogynists have long since departed (or been booted), I'm sure there's a lot of useful conversations that can occur.


So why does Alex not want one?

Is there somewhere where he explains this so I can go have a read?


My understanding is that the Men's Forum didn't get much use, so he doesn't want to go through the bother of creating a new one.


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RetroGamer87
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12 Nov 2017, 4:03 pm

So why do we want one anyway? Can't we men just discuss things on the existing forums?


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TheSpectrum
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12 Nov 2017, 5:44 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
So why do we want one anyway? Can't we men just discuss things on the existing forums?

You're covering old ground here.

My post and another stated types of issues that don't currently have a proper home.
Others do share your sentiments that at least some of those threads could be housed under other subs.

You appear to have self loathing of your own gender based on your earlier post in this thread. Is there any particular reason for this? I can understand why some might be indifferent to the idea of having the forum on a practical level but fail to understand why anyone would be for or against it on a personal level, as it is merely a tool not the wielder.


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RetroGamer87
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12 Nov 2017, 9:28 pm

I do not have a self-loathing for my own gender.


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ZachGoodwin
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13 Nov 2017, 11:47 pm

I'm afraid of being a sexist if I enter the men's discussion forum.



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14 Nov 2017, 12:12 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do understand, a little more, the need for a "woman's forum," though. There is the tendency for some within the male gender to want to put their "two cents" in when it comes to discussions on 'female issues"; whereas women tend not to be so inclined to put their "two cents" in within a male-centered forum.

Have you been to many male-oriented forums? They're typically loaded with women.

I don't buy the argument that WrongPlanet basically defaults to a men's forum since more males are diagnosed. Some men might want to discuss certain things with other men, and they should have that space. I don't understand the reluctance, let alone the posts from men who say a men's forum isn't needed. If a man doesn't feel the need for a men's forum, don't vote for it. But why vote against other men having it?



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