Therapist Wants Me to Make Eye Contact

Page 1 of 4 [ 52 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

20 Oct 2017, 3:17 am

I live with very little eye contact, i can't imagine why therapists are so insistent on it.
My strategy is to turn my body in the direction of the person I am talking to and glance every now and then at them in general. Uhms help too.
With very close persons I use physical contact (holding hands, hugging) instead of eye contact but it is only me, and it is restricted to my family and the very closest friends.

It may be my more introvert-friendly culture but I can live like that, other ND people I know here can live like that, avoiding this stressful and confusing eye contact makes my life and interpersonal relations easier.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


raw83472
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 37
Location: Florida

20 Oct 2017, 8:21 am

There's no way I'd be able to "practice keeping eye contact", since if I did that, nothing the person says would get through to my brain. I can easily make and keep eye contact... it just means everything that person says will be ignored by my brain... So the question is... do they want me to listen to them (which means I have to avoid eye contact), or do they want to me keep eye contact (in which case I'd just be staring at their eyeball and observing it) and not listen to them? I'd say probably the former... Are most other aspies like this also?



Broken Sun Beam
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 11 Aug 2017
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 96
Location: Texas

20 Oct 2017, 8:25 am

Have you tried "bouncing" your eyes? This helps me in interviews. I also learned to do this when I was in theatre and speach class. You can also look at the person's forehead instead. It gives them the appearance that you're making eye contact even though you really aren't...

Although I'm the same way. I hate looking at people's eyes. Makes me feel like I'm watching them get undressed. I only look my husband in the eyes. Even then it feels super awkward. Lmao.

Bouncing my eyes back and forth between their face and something else does help a loot though.

hope this helps!


_________________


shilohmm
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 100

20 Oct 2017, 10:30 am

thebelgradebelief wrote:
Eye contact is very painful and distracting for me to the point where I can't speak.


Brain research is constantly updating so I don't know if this is still the theory, but at least at one time research indicated that looking into someone's eyes actually stimulates a part of the brain. The book I read it in was discussing introversion and extroversion, and the study basically showed that, in introverts, that part of the brain is already over stimulated, so they're trying to calm it, while in extroverts, that part of the brain is kinda sluggish, so they're always trying to stimulate it. I don't know that being on the spectrum necessarily makes one an introvert, but I do think a lot of people on the spectrum are likely dealing with an overstimulated brain, and that looking someone in the eyes is literally painful, so we avoid it.

I can look someone in the eyes fairly easily, by "zoning out" so I'm not seeing what I'm looking at ("stare downs" were a big thing at my elementary school once...). As with your response, this "solution" is not very conducive to holding a conversation. My solution has been a combination of the notebook thing -- I do take the occasional note, even if it isn't something I really need to remember -- and the quick glances. Some people are fine with you looking at another part of their face -- mouth, chin, forehead -- but other people are really adamant about the looking in the eyes thing, which I frankly find extremely creepy.

As others have mentioned, looking in the eyes is a dominance thing with most animals, and in my experience that's often the case with kids and teenagers, too, although I don't know if that's where this person is coming from. People in authority also get obsessed with it -- "he's not looking me in the eyes, therefore he's not paying attention" kinda stuff. So I suppose it could be argued it's a useful skill sometimes, but if it ends up handicapping you more than anything, what's the point? I do not see it as a necessary social skill and would argue for some sort of compromise. So long as you can meet people's eyes briefly and/or otherwise show interest, most people don't seem to get too wound up about it.



Angnix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,243
Location: Michigan

20 Oct 2017, 10:50 am

For me it depends how comfortable I am with the person. My own husband, yes, I make eye contact. A stranger... I find myself looking away if they catch my eye. But I tend to be able to do it "enough" if I at least know the person a bit. My NT husband told me that he automatically thinks people avoiding eye contact are lying.


_________________
Crazy Bird Lady!! !
Also likes Pokemon

Avatar: A Shiny from the new Pokemon Pearl remake, Shiny Chatot... I named him TaterTot...

FINALLY diagnosed with ASD 2/6/2020


raw83472
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 37
Location: Florida

20 Oct 2017, 10:55 am

shilohmm wrote:
thebelgradebelief wrote:
Eye contact is very painful and distracting for me to the point where I can't speak.


Brain research is constantly updating so I don't know if this is still the theory, but at least at one time research indicated that looking into someone's eyes actually stimulates a part of the brain. The book I read it in was discussing introversion and extroversion, and the study basically showed that, in introverts, that part of the brain is already over stimulated, so they're trying to calm it, while in extroverts, that part of the brain is kinda sluggish, so they're always trying to stimulate it. I don't know that being on the spectrum necessarily makes one an introvert, but I do think a lot of people on the spectrum are likely dealing with an overstimulated brain, and that looking someone in the eyes is literally painful, so we avoid it.

I can look someone in the eyes fairly easily, by "zoning out" so I'm not seeing what I'm looking at ("stare downs" were a big thing at my elementary school once...). As with your response, this "solution" is not very conducive to holding a conversation. My solution has been a combination of the notebook thing -- I do take the occasional note, even if it isn't something I really need to remember -- and the quick glances. Some people are fine with you looking at another part of their face -- mouth, chin, forehead -- but other people are really adamant about the looking in the eyes thing, which I frankly find extremely creepy.

As others have mentioned, looking in the eyes is a dominance thing with most animals, and in my experience that's often the case with kids and teenagers, too, although I don't know if that's where this person is coming from. People in authority also get obsessed with it -- "he's not looking me in the eyes, therefore he's not paying attention" kinda stuff. So I suppose it could be argued it's a useful skill sometimes, but if it ends up handicapping you more than anything, what's the point? I do not see it as a necessary social skill and would argue for some sort of compromise. So long as you can meet people's eyes briefly and/or otherwise show interest, most people don't seem to get too wound up about it.


It's actually painful for you when looking into someone's eyes? For me, it's just that eye contact means nothing they're saying will "get through to me". Or in other words... either I can make eye contact or I can be looking elsewhere ("zoned out") and concentrating on listening, but I can't do both. Also, I can't be talking and making eye contact at the some time either. There's no pain though for me. Also, if I do keep eye contact I usually end up staring at their eyes for too long which I think makes them uncomfortable... so I generally just try to position my eyes toward their forehead so they (somewhat) think I'm making eye contact with them.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,237
Location: Long Island, New York

20 Oct 2017, 11:38 am

An workaround is to look at the other persons nose, or mouth or any area near the eye. Usually the other person does not know the difference and it is not tramatic for you.

To me eye contact is similar to someone shining a flashlight in my eyes. Not painful but very uncomfortable with a strong urge to look away.

I do not favor clinicions whose goal is to make us as non autistic as possible as therapist seems to be doing. Making oneself the best Autistic person possible should be the approach.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


shilohmm
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 100

20 Oct 2017, 12:01 pm

raw83472 wrote:
It's actually painful for you when looking into someone's eyes?


Painful in the sense that stress is painful, yes. Not pain at a specific physical point, but a more generalized discomfort. It's like when someone is too close physically and won't back off.

If I deliberately defocus my eyes so the person is just a blur, it still feels stupid and pointless, but I don't get that urge to look away.



ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,137

20 Oct 2017, 12:20 pm

It's all been said here already....all I can do is endorse the view that your therapist doesn't understand ASD very well when it comes to the eye contact issue. I'd also urge anybody seeing a therapist to try to see them as a facilitator and not as an authority figure, and to take and maintain control over the sessions, but I guess some clients prefer to put their trust in a brain guru, and naturally if a client insists they need a guru, then it's their choice. But the fact that the OP is doubting their therapist's directions on the eye contact thing suggests that that's not quite the case here. Even so, some therapists are probably pretty tenacious about asserting their authority, so the sessions might get uncomfortable if the matter can't be resolved, and a new therapist might be the only thing for it.

I don't have much of an aversion to eye contact personally, i.e. it doesn't make me feel sick or anything, so usually I can do it if I really want to, but it distracts me from the conversation, and I have enough trouble keeping up with conversations as it is without another spanner in the works. I also have a strange aversion to looking at some people's faces, mostly it's OK but some folks give me this weird smile which seems inappropriate to the material, best guess it's a fake social smile that they're not doing very well and I'm picking up on the falseness of it, and a fake smile often looks more like a grimace than a nice reassuring genuine smile, and I might also be picking up on the dishonesty of it.



raw83472
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 37
Location: Florida

20 Oct 2017, 12:23 pm

shilohmm wrote:
raw83472 wrote:
It's actually painful for you when looking into someone's eyes?


Painful in the sense that stress is painful, yes. Not pain at a specific physical point, but a more generalized discomfort. It's like when someone is too close physically and won't back off.

If I deliberately defocus my eyes so the person is just a blur, it still feels stupid and pointless, but I don't get that urge to look away.


Sounds like your'e describing "shyness".



shilohmm
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 100

20 Oct 2017, 1:01 pm

raw83472 wrote:
Sounds like your'e describing "shyness".


Might be part of shyness, I dunno. I'm not a particularly shy person, I don't think. I'm not crazy about social interactions, but I'm also assertive enough people are sometimes surprised to discover I'm an introvert. So long as I have enough "down time", I can act pretty extroverted when I think it necessary, which I don't believe is true of shy people.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,660
Location: Houston, Texas

20 Oct 2017, 1:16 pm

I think there is a way to "soften" your vision where you look lightly at the entire oval of both eyes, and medium shift from one eye to the other, and a little bit occasionally shifting my vision to their mouth but not too much.

This should still remain a matter of individual choice! :D People should not attempt to foist an NT world onto us.



Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 20 Oct 2017, 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BirdInFlight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?

20 Oct 2017, 1:29 pm

Reading this thread, I'm having a problem with the whole idea of this therapist basically forcing you to do something that causes stress to you, something that is, as AsPartOfMe says, trying to make you "less autistic" -- by any other name.

I find this actually kind of disturbing -- it reminds me of things I've read about how just a few generations ago, left handed children were forced to write with their right hands. The practice died out when people realized it was kind of barbaric.

Even though eye contact is the "correct" body language for most of the world in its social interactions, when is anyone going to accept that an autistic person may need to do things differently and be accepted for that?

Do they want a functioning, comfortable autistic person who can get through their day if others just concede a few things like less eye contact?

Or do they want an unhappy, uncomfortable autistic person who is doing things that please NTs but they get home after a day of that and have a shutdown for hours?



mauloch_baal
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 60

20 Oct 2017, 3:26 pm

thebelgradebelief wrote:
My therapist wanted me to learn body language and social cues so I can communicate better. The first thing we're doing is eye contact, of which I am terrible at. Eye contact is very painful and distracting for me to the point where I can't speak. I'm afraid it might put me into shutdowns if I continue trying to make eye contact. I just don't see the point in it, I don't understand why NTs love looking into eyeballs. Should I keep trying to learn how to do this or should I stop this and try something else?


It isn't one of those things where you just face your fears and it goes away. Eye contact is difficult for all of us, it doesn't get better with time so I don't think your therapist really understand ASD. Either they should attempt to learn more or you should find someone who will



underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

21 Oct 2017, 2:18 am

Can you ask your therapist how much social interaction is worth trading against eye contact? For example, when I'm stressed out, I can't both do eye contact and listen to instructions. My boss yelled at me for it, but if I do eye contact, I forget all she said to me. So ask your therapist how much eye contact is worth compared to other things.

If it's really important, will he be satisfied with pretending eye contact? You got a lot of useful suggestions from other posters.

I agree with the others, it's a major problem that your therapist doesn't really understand autism. The specialist who diagnosed me told me straight that I am put togheter in a different way from other people, and that I have to do things in a different way. Why doesn't your therapist get that? It's a very basic piece of information when dealing with autism. It's not an obscure detail, it's the basis of everything.

If eye contact was so easy, you'd have figured it out yourself when you were a child.


_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

21 Oct 2017, 4:37 am

If you're talking about an occupational therapist, I think think you should give it a try. It's not like it's a necessity, so it's not something you have to wreck yourself over trying to achieve. And it could take years to get it right. I've suffered through years of speech therapy, but it's always been up to me to keep it going.