Therapist Wants Me to Make Eye Contact

Page 1 of 4 [ 52 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

thebelgradebelief
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 76
Location: The Moon

19 Oct 2017, 4:46 pm

My therapist wanted me to learn body language and social cues so I can communicate better. The first thing we're doing is eye contact, of which I am terrible at. Eye contact is very painful and distracting for me to the point where I can't speak. I'm afraid it might put me into shutdowns if I continue trying to make eye contact. I just don't see the point in it, I don't understand why NTs love looking into eyeballs. Should I keep trying to learn how to do this or should I stop this and try something else?


_________________
144/200 ND
58/200 NT

High school student with Autism and ADHD.
Diagnosed 3/22/18.

Special Interest: The Beatles


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,857

19 Oct 2017, 5:16 pm

Maybe try suggesting to your therapist that they do some reading on why eye contact is difficult for people on the spectrum, so she can better understand what she is asking of you and why it's so often challenging for us. Something like this: Should We Insist on Eye Contact with People who have Autism Spectrum Disorders and maybe this: Why Kids With Autism May Avoid Eye Contact



xatrix26
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2017
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 614
Location: Canada

19 Oct 2017, 5:18 pm

thebelgradebelief wrote:
My therapist wanted me to learn body language and social cues so I can communicate better. The first thing we're doing is eye contact, of which I am terrible at. Eye contact is very painful and distracting for me to the point where I can't speak. I'm afraid it might put me into shutdowns if I continue trying to make eye contact. I just don't see the point in it, I don't understand why NTs love looking into eyeballs. Should I keep trying to learn how to do this or should I stop this and try something else?


I would have a GREAT deal of difficulty with this one as well for the same reasons you do. Eye contact is a major thing for me and for all Aspies and I might so go so far as to tell him that we can't continue with this eye contact thing at all.

I don't think it's fair for him/her to force you to make eye contact because obviously he doesn't understand that all Autistics in general have a major issue with that. In fact it's so fundamental to who we are that it could undermine any therapy that he/she wants to give you.

I have to say when I read this, that it was quite disconcerting to me so I would force him to drop the issue altogether and just continue with other issues. If not it might be time for a new therapist. This is too important to Aspies. Eye contact almost always causes shutdowns.


_________________
*** High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome ***

ADHD, OCD, and PTSD.

Keep calm and stim away. ;)


Exuvian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 822

19 Oct 2017, 5:27 pm

Would a compromise work? Like looking between their eyebrows or at their mouth...? That's usually convincing enough, if it works for you.



Insania2016
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 55

19 Oct 2017, 5:50 pm

Tell them to get lost...

I've practiced eye contact. It's very uncomfortable and draining. You can learn it too to make everyone else comfortable at your own expense.



bunnyb
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 589
Location: Australia

19 Oct 2017, 5:57 pm

I can either look at someone or listen to them. Can't do both. I don't get the whole NT eyeballing thing either. In dogs, eyeballing is often a dominance thing. The first dog to look away will lose the fight. Submissive dogs avoid eyeballing other dogs because they don't want to fight. Dogs are easier to understand than NT's.


_________________
I have a piece of paper that says ASD Level 2 so it must be true.


thebelgradebelief
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 76
Location: The Moon

19 Oct 2017, 6:33 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Maybe try suggesting to your therapist that they do some reading on why eye contact is difficult for people on the spectrum, so she can better understand what she is asking of you and why it's so often challenging for us. Something like this: Should We Insist on Eye Contact with People who have Autism Spectrum Disorders and maybe this: Why Kids With Autism May Avoid Eye Contact


Thank you for the resources! I will try to get them to my therapist. I have addressed my concerns with him but he seems to not fully understand the pain that comes along with eye contact with me. He said that I should try to make eye contact for others, but what about me?

xatrix26 wrote:
I would have a GREAT deal of difficulty with this one as well for the same reasons you do. Eye contact is a major thing for me and for all Aspies and I might so go so far as to tell him that we can't continue with this eye contact thing at all.

I don't think it's fair for him/her to force you to make eye contact because obviously he doesn't understand that all Autistics in general have a major issue with that. In fact it's so fundamental to who we are that it could undermine any therapy that he/she wants to give you.

I have to say when I read this, that it was quite disconcerting to me so I would force him to drop the issue altogether and just continue with other issues. If not it might be time for a new therapist. This is too important to Aspies. Eye contact almost always causes shutdowns.


I was wondering if me being bothered by this was just me being stubborn. He is very nice and one of the only people in my life who bothered to listen to me about being autistic, but eye contact is just not something I feel I will ever do, at least properly.

Exuvian wrote:
Would a compromise work? Like looking between their eyebrows or at their mouth...? That's usually convincing enough, if it works for you.


I'd much rather not look at the person at all, but if absolutely needed I can look at their shoulder or nose. My therapist wants me to look directly at the eyes though, which sucks.

Insania2016 wrote:
Tell them to get lost...

I've practiced eye contact. It's very uncomfortable and draining. You can learn it too to make everyone else comfortable at your own expense.


Frankly, I don't care if someone didn't want to make eye contact with me. Just as long as they were listening I would be fine. I don't get why I'm supposed to be the one to suffer.

bunnyb wrote:
I can either look at someone or listen to them. Can't do both. I don't get the whole NT eyeballing thing either. In dogs, eyeballing is often a dominance thing. The first dog to look away will lose the fight. Submissive dogs avoid eyeballing other dogs because they don't want to fight. Dogs are easier to understand than NT's.


Cats blink slowly at someone they want to show affection to, so I do it to my cat and she does it back. I wish it was that simple. I have also tried to explain to him (my therapist) about how difficult it is to communicate and listen when looking at someone in the eyes, but it was kinda brushed aside.

Thank you for your responses.


_________________
144/200 ND
58/200 NT

High school student with Autism and ADHD.
Diagnosed 3/22/18.

Special Interest: The Beatles


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,857

19 Oct 2017, 6:56 pm

thebelgradebelief wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Maybe try suggesting to your therapist that they do some reading on why eye contact is difficult for people on the spectrum, so she can better understand what she is asking of you and why it's so often challenging for us. Something like this: Should We Insist on Eye Contact with People who have Autism Spectrum Disorders and maybe this: Why Kids With Autism May Avoid Eye Contact


Thank you for the resources! I will try to get them to my therapist. I have addressed my concerns with him but he seems to not fully understand the pain that comes along with eye contact with me. He said that I should try to make eye contact for others, but what about me?

xatrix26 wrote:
I would have a GREAT deal of difficulty with this one as well for the same reasons you do. Eye contact is a major thing for me and for all Aspies and I might so go so far as to tell him that we can't continue with this eye contact thing at all.

I don't think it's fair for him/her to force you to make eye contact because obviously he doesn't understand that all Autistics in general have a major issue with that. In fact it's so fundamental to who we are that it could undermine any therapy that he/she wants to give you.

I have to say when I read this, that it was quite disconcerting to me so I would force him to drop the issue altogether and just continue with other issues. If not it might be time for a new therapist. This is too important to Aspies. Eye contact almost always causes shutdowns.


I was wondering if me being bothered by this was just me being stubborn. He is very nice and one of the only people in my life who bothered to listen to me about being autistic, but eye contact is just not something I feel I will ever do, at least properly.

Exuvian wrote:
Would a compromise work? Like looking between their eyebrows or at their mouth...? That's usually convincing enough, if it works for you.


I'd much rather not look at the person at all, but if absolutely needed I can look at their shoulder or nose. My therapist wants me to look directly at the eyes though, which sucks.

Insania2016 wrote:
Tell them to get lost...

I've practiced eye contact. It's very uncomfortable and draining. You can learn it too to make everyone else comfortable at your own expense.


Frankly, I don't care if someone didn't want to make eye contact with me. Just as long as they were listening I would be fine. I don't get why I'm supposed to be the one to suffer.

bunnyb wrote:
I can either look at someone or listen to them. Can't do both. I don't get the whole NT eyeballing thing either. In dogs, eyeballing is often a dominance thing. The first dog to look away will lose the fight. Submissive dogs avoid eyeballing other dogs because they don't want to fight. Dogs are easier to understand than NT's.


Cats blink slowly at someone they want to show affection to, so I do it to my cat and she does it back. I wish it was that simple. I have also tried to explain to him (my therapist) about how difficult it is to communicate and listen when looking at someone in the eyes, but it was kinda brushed aside.

Thank you for your responses.


What I do is explain to people when I meet them (if it's necessary, depending on the context) that I don't make a lot of eye contact especially when I am listening carefully to someone, so not to interpret that behaviour from me as not listening. That helps to smooth things over and I don't have to make uncomfortable eye contact and miss what the person is saying. Could you offer this as an alternative to your therapist?



thebelgradebelief
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 76
Location: The Moon

19 Oct 2017, 7:04 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
What I do is explain to people when I meet them (if it's necessary, depending on the context) that I don't make a lot of eye contact especially when I am listening carefully to someone, so not to interpret that behaviour from me as not listening. That helps to smooth things over and I don't have to make uncomfortable eye contact and miss what the person is saying. Could you offer this as an alternative to your therapist?


Maybe, but he seems to think that body language creates a subconscious effect and is a big part of communication. He tried showing me by looking the other direction and talking but I didn't feel any difference. He created a plan for me where I should bring a notepad everywhere I go and write down what I'm going to say first and then look the person in the eye and say it. It sounds helpful, but it makes me look weirder than if I just didn't make eye contact.


_________________
144/200 ND
58/200 NT

High school student with Autism and ADHD.
Diagnosed 3/22/18.

Special Interest: The Beatles


Exuvian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 822

19 Oct 2017, 8:31 pm

In high school, I probably looked quite "engaged" on the days when I forgot my glasses and could look right at Mr. or Ms. Blob as they taught the class. Today I can manage 20/20 eye-contact if I need to minimize being negatively judged. It's just hard to remember anything when you're thinking, "please-stop-talking-please-let-me-go..." the whole time.

That's why I initially asked if a compromise was possible. The purpose is to use apparent eye-contact techniques to your advantage.

That might not be the best solution for you though.



garysoneji
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 63
Location: Arboria

19 Oct 2017, 8:41 pm

Eye contact is rarely useful unless you're vying for a position of power. I think as long as you speak to people and respond accordingly, showing that you were listening, most of your social interactions will go well. People may think you're a little weird, but don't actively show any disdain. When you're talking to someone, just occasionally glance at their eyes. It's better than never doing so. You never need to make prolonged eye contact. That often comes with new challenges and unexpected cues. I think people can generally tell when you're looking at their eyes as opposed to another part of their face, so staring at another point probably won't generate your desired results.


_________________
Long Live the New Flesh


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,857

19 Oct 2017, 8:50 pm

thebelgradebelief wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
What I do is explain to people when I meet them (if it's necessary, depending on the context) that I don't make a lot of eye contact especially when I am listening carefully to someone, so not to interpret that behaviour from me as not listening. That helps to smooth things over and I don't have to make uncomfortable eye contact and miss what the person is saying. Could you offer this as an alternative to your therapist?


Maybe, but he seems to think that body language creates a subconscious effect and is a big part of communication. He tried showing me by looking the other direction and talking but I didn't feel any difference. He created a plan for me where I should bring a notepad everywhere I go and write down what I'm going to say first and then look the person in the eye and say it. It sounds helpful, but it makes me look weirder than if I just didn't make eye contact.


Yeah, it sounds like he means well but he really doesn't understand autism very well and how our brains work differently, and that sometimes people need to adapt to us and not the other way around constantly. If we spend all our time adapting and never asking others to adapt to us, we burn out. He obviously doesn't get that part of it. And that you can't alter the way you perceive sensory information and that eye contact is uncomfortable for a reason, because of the way your brain is wired. Ironically, your therapist is being too inflexible and unempathetic with you (we are usually the ones being accused of those things.)



starkid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,812
Location: California Bay Area

19 Oct 2017, 9:21 pm

thebelgradebelief wrote:
My therapist wanted me to learn body language and social cues so I can communicate better.

Your therapist seems confused. Neurological issues with body language aren't exactly a matter of learning something new. I'm sure you already know how to look people in the eye, so what is there to learn? The problem is that it's uncomfortable and unnatural.

Learning things you actually don't know and practicing them sometimes can certainly be helpful, but, unless your therapist can make those things comfortable and more natural for you, I don't see this as anything but needless suffering for you.

I wonder what your therapist would say if you told him that trying to improve your eye contact and "social cues" worsens other aspects of your communication. Great eye contact is worthless if you can't think or talk. If you two talk about that, I'd like to know what happens.



NeilM
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Age: 72
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 277
Location: Virginia, USA

19 Oct 2017, 10:04 pm

I agree with what everyone has said, especially starkid--its not that you don't know HOW to make eye contact, its that its traumatic for you. Yep, been there, done that, etc.

What I want to recommend is a variation on the notepad idea. Have the notepad, the smallest they make is too small, a steno pad or one that size is about right. Have a pen to go with it of course, you can store it in the wire spiral. All you need to do is open it, take out the pen, and either lay the notepad in your lap or put it on the table in front of you. You probably won't write anything on it at all, its there as a legitimate alternate focal point. When you are not making eye contact, if you are looking just generally on the floor somewhere or off into space, that seems to be the most unnerving to the other person (assuming NT). But if you are looking at this notepad, they seem to accept that. Then if you can periodically glance up in the general direction of the person's face, do the eyebrow thing or focus on the nose for a second or two, you will most likely satisfy their need for eye contact. I don't know if that will satisfy your therapist but anyone else, even a job interviewer should be ok with it.

While you're at it, the act of opening the notepad and taking the pen in your writing hand confers nonverbally, "Alright, I'm getting down to business here." Likewise, when you have had enough and its time to go, closing the notepad and putting away the pen says, "Alright, I'm done here."

Hope this helps too.


_________________
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 120 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 74 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

AQ = 38 MBTI = ISTJ Gender = Non-binary
I strive not to perseverate. You can PM me for more info.


k.wolf
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 25

20 Oct 2017, 2:24 am

Something I do to compensate for my lack of eye contact is nodding or saying 'uh-huh' as the person is speaking. I think it's a good alternative to showing that you're paying attention to what they're saying and it's easier to keep track of and less stressful than forcing eye contact.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

20 Oct 2017, 3:17 am

I live with very little eye contact, i can't imagine why therapists are so insistent on it.
My strategy is to turn my body in the direction of the person I am talking to and glance every now and then at them in general. Uhms help too.
With very close persons I use physical contact (holding hands, hugging) instead of eye contact but it is only me, and it is restricted to my family and the very closest friends.

It may be my more introvert-friendly culture but I can live like that, other ND people I know here can live like that, avoiding this stressful and confusing eye contact makes my life and interpersonal relations easier.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>