What do you think about illegal immigration and workers

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pawelk1986
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21 Oct 2017, 6:01 am

What do you think about illegal immigration and illegal workers (due age or immigration status)

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 435AA5y2wh

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/What-d ... esentation

am 31 years old, I have Asperger's team, I just got my first job, it's not the work of my dreams, but there is a cool atmosphere at work. I work in a KFC restoration (more specifically in it's Polish branch)

In my restaurant I am responsible for washing dishes, marinating chicken and accepting deliveries, and put new goods according to so called FIFO rules into storage.

In our restaurant we work not only Poles, but also foreigners and more specifically Ukrainians, they are here in Poland completely legally, they have permission to work in my country.

But there are also those who work illegally, for example here in Poland a lot of people from the East, ie Ukrainians and Russians, and children under 15 work illegally because they do not have a working visa or the required age. They work most of the time in agriculture, because the Polish national economy is largely agricultural, they work in the harvest, such as strawberries, raspberries, gooseberries,
For farmers who employ them it is profitable because they can not have a normal contract of employment, they do not have to pay health insurance contributions (children and adults up to the age of 25) who are still studying and do not have to pay them) or social security contributions (pensions) and may give an employee more than they earn to work on a contract

I had a friend who also had Asperger's Syndrome, but more classical, had the ability to computer. He once had a problem with our Polish tax office, because as a teenager he was helping a single IT company, and to make it more ridiculous it was an American or a Japanese company, so they could not employ him legally because he was under 15 years old but they hired him without a contract, he worked under someone's name.

But our Polish job security agency, it found, the employer was punished, then he hired him again a few months later, as he was 15 years old because he was missing a few months, and he worked there probably 2 years. But he got a sensitive letter from our Polish Tax Office asking him to pay the outstanding income tax along with penalties, (and to make it funnier his parents was required to do so because children income is treated as parents income! :evil: )

I wonder if United States filed for divorce from Great Britain over "No taxation without representation" why teens who cannot legally vote should pay taxes that it's very interesting for me :mrgreen:



The_Walrus
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22 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm

We should make all immigration legal (unless you have a history of violence or ongoing affiliation to extremist groups or something along those lines). That way we won't have the problems associated with illegal immigration.

Simultaneously, we should crack down on employers who ignore the rights of their workers. Hiring children? Not paying the minimum wage? Expect a public shaming, a big fine, and potentially criminal charges for those responsible.



Aristophanes
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22 Oct 2017, 1:07 pm

I'm self-employed and work in agriculture. Illegal immigration has hurt my wages over the last decade (that's as long as I've been doing this line of work), but to a much lesser extent than others in my industry since I have specialized crops and again, am self-employed. The costs associated with my business have risen at a 1-3% annual rate (sometimes higher, sometimes lower than baseline inflation), but the price consumers are willing to pay has stayed the same (meaning not rising with inflation), even having a specialty (hormone-free, ecologically friendly hydroponics). Illegal immigration has hurt me and my business and therefor I am against it.

That said, I don't like any of the policies put forth for solving it, they're poor policy at best and draconian at worst. I have no ill will towards illegal immigrants, I understand why they come, and if I were in the situation many of them were in before they came here I would attempt the same. What I would like to see is someone get serious about the business end of the equation, namely start hammering away at businesses that continually hire them, if there are no jobs available there's no incentive to come. As it stands employers here have every incentive to find illegal workers: they get paid roughly half of what citizens do and if the business gets caught the fine is so low when factored in it doesn't even raise the cost to that of hiring an actual citizen-- and that's if they're even caught. That approach can apply to every nationality that's illegally here, it's a broad brush approach that avoids the identity politics and outright racism that's found in a lot of the current immigration proposals.



magz
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22 Oct 2017, 1:16 pm

I prefer illegal workers over legal social welfare beneficients. Greatly.


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leejosepho
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22 Oct 2017, 3:14 pm

Let anyone and everyone have the opportunity to immigrate, but do not provide anything free-of-charge -- they must pay their own ways for schooling, health care and anything else -- and then immediately deport any and all found guilty of criminal charges. For those who request to become citizens, let them demonstrate their abilities to provide for themselves and remain crime-free for a set period of time...and then grant them citizenship.


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sly279
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22 Oct 2017, 4:01 pm

magz wrote:
I prefer illegal workers over legal social welfare beneficients. Greatly.

Why do you dislike people like me and sweetleaf?



sly279
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22 Oct 2017, 4:03 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
We should make all immigration legal (unless you have a history of violence or ongoing affiliation to extremist groups or something along those lines). That way we won't have the problems associated with illegal immigration.

Simultaneously, we should crack down on employers who ignore the rights of their workers. Hiring children? Not paying the minimum wage? Expect a public shaming, a big fine, and potentially criminal charges for those responsible.


So you’d be fine with billions of people flooding the us? Stretching it’s infra to the breaking point , wiping out wild animals and creating and over population issue?



magz
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06 Nov 2017, 6:04 am

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
I prefer illegal workers over legal social welfare beneficients. Greatly.

Why do you dislike people like me and sweetleaf?

I meant immigrants. Part of the european migrant crisis is the fact that we have a mass immigration of people intending to get social welfare and not to work. All the African and Middle Easterners - once they make it to cross the Mediterrean Sea, get to the wealthier parts of Europe and prove they are refugees, they are entitled to the benefits they couldn't dream of in their home countries. You can guess the kind of people this politics attracts.
This is devastating to the society and economy. Why can't we just let them come legally and work instead of locking the borders and then giving all this welfare to the ones who made it?


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The_Walrus
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06 Nov 2017, 2:20 pm

sly279 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
We should make all immigration legal (unless you have a history of violence or ongoing affiliation to extremist groups or something along those lines). That way we won't have the problems associated with illegal immigration.

Simultaneously, we should crack down on employers who ignore the rights of their workers. Hiring children? Not paying the minimum wage? Expect a public shaming, a big fine, and potentially criminal charges for those responsible.


So you’d be fine with billions of people flooding the us? Stretching it’s infra to the breaking point , wiping out wild animals and creating and over population issue?

That wouldn't happen.

1) Most people aren't interested in leaving their homes and travelling across the world.
2) If they are, they have a variety of destinations in mind.
3) If they do migrate, they often end up moving back - and of course many Americans might well choose to leave and live elsewhere.
4) The US has a very low population density, 185th in the world. If it doubled then you'd only be as dense as Ireland and if you quadrupled then you'd be as dense as Denmark. Even further off countries like Italy and France. So there's no realistic risk of national overpopulation or infrastructure struggling to cope, although of course there may be specific concerns in some areas.

So there's no reason to be frightened.



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06 Nov 2017, 6:45 pm

I think keeping the immigrants out may end up costing more money than it saves.

Besides, who else is willing to pick fruit for 12 hours per day under the hot sun?


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caffeinekid
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06 Nov 2017, 7:37 pm

Dividing lines between nations are arbitrary and don't actually exist. There is no such thing as immigration, only humans swarming from one nest to another. That's a bit darker than I meant but I'm sleepy and not feeling the love for humanity with it's petty divisions at the moment.


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14 Nov 2017, 7:17 pm

My opinion is that illegals are a problem that should be returned to their country of origin. It is not a human right to live in a specific part of the world.
Minors should only do the sort of jobs they can by law (like delivering the papers etc).


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14 Nov 2017, 8:06 pm

If it's illegal and continuing in high numbers then the illegal immigrants, those encouraging them, and the laws themselves are all problems.

To have laws on the books, as well as processes for doing things right, and to ignore them for any sort of 'nudge-nudge wink-wink' kind of arrangement is just bad. It's bad on one side for showing disrespect for rule of law and even on the other, if legal immigration were so badly wrapped in red tape that almost no one could do it (which I haven't heard a case made for in the US) then the solution is to fix the right way so that it is actually the right way rather than a sarcastic message that one has to just about get to 30,000 feet of altitude to clear the requirements.


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20 Nov 2017, 7:41 pm

With regards to a statement a few posts back. About refugees.
I would have to wonder, personally, just what these people were seeking refuge from, why they need to leave everything behind, uproot their family, travel across borders in search of refuge, and who it is that may be responsible for whatever action caused them to become refugees in the first place. I would want answers to those questions. And I think that I may not be able to deny those people refuge in good conscience. And I would hope they could be able to eventually support themselves, and until that time I think it would be better to offer them assistance.
But I think that citizens, Nationals, all of them who might need it should not need to face extreme hardship unnecessarily either, and should be able to receive assistance in times of need.
In the US, we are built by immigrants and refugees. On the back of genocide and slavery. I think that anyone who comes here and works should be allowed to. I think that kids should get to go to school here. I think if you can make it across the border, you should be able to see a doctor.
I think that this country's current apparent difficulty meeting these most basic needs of every one of it's citizens is a problem.
And I think that focusing on illegal immigration is a diversion, because people do not want to face the real problems in this country.



GeorgeLincoln
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21 Nov 2017, 6:38 pm

They are the shock troops of the bourgeoisie used as scabs to weaken the native working class as are all immigrants, but since legal immigrants respected the laws of this country, they should simply be deported while illegals went out of their way to defy the laws of this country just so they could white themselves out to the capitalists and therefore should spend some time in a gulag and given political education, then sent back to their home countries to stir up revolution.



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21 Nov 2017, 6:50 pm

They want to keep them illegal so they can exploit them more easily.


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