Can you define autism without listing symptoms?

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Temeraire
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03 Nov 2017, 4:15 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
soloha wrote:
Temeraire wrote:
A constant negotiation of conflict between the inner and outer world.

Nice! That really resonates with me.


That sounds a little bit Matrixie to me where NT's all take the blue pill and ND's take the red pill. I'm pretty sure if I get given a Dx of ASD it's going to feel like taking the red pill.


That was a bit Matrixie. I suppose because I experience and observe 'a difficulty in finding harmony and balance'.
Perhaps this may be another way of putting it.



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03 Nov 2017, 4:59 pm

Temeraire wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
soloha wrote:
Temeraire wrote:
A constant negotiation of conflict between the inner and outer world.

Nice! That really resonates with me.


That sounds a little bit Matrixie to me where NT's all take the blue pill and ND's take the red pill. I'm pretty sure if I get given a Dx of ASD it's going to feel like taking the red pill.


That was a bit Matrixie. I suppose because I experience and observe 'a difficulty in finding harmony and balance'.
Perhaps this may be another way of putting it.


harmony and balance in yourself , H & B in the world or H & B between you & the world ?


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kraftiekortie
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03 Nov 2017, 5:09 pm

Many times, in autism, you're taking neither the red nor the blue pill.

You seek to take a pill of your own design.



Temeraire
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03 Nov 2017, 5:48 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Temeraire wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
soloha wrote:
Temeraire wrote:
A constant negotiation of conflict between the inner and outer world.

Nice! That really resonates with me.


That sounds a little bit Matrixie to me where NT's all take the blue pill and ND's take the red pill. I'm pretty sure if I get given a Dx of ASD it's going to feel like taking the red pill.


That was a bit Matrixie. I suppose because I experience and observe 'a difficulty in finding harmony and balance'.
Perhaps this may be another way of putting it.


harmony and balance in yourself , H & B in the world or H & B between you & the world ?


All of the above. As KraftieKoftie says, it is about carving your own way in the world and I believe this creates conflict as there is usually an opposing force somewhere to contend with.

Just something simple like a social interaction where we want a connection and warmth from others but we also want to be who we are in that moment and this can cause chaos especially if the other person does not want what you want.

Most of the things I like to eat are not very healthy but the ones which are will keep me healthy and I don't want to eat these much.

Disliking but accepting/respecting other people views and values. As I would like them to do for me.



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03 Nov 2017, 6:19 pm

Temeraire wrote:

Most of the things I like to eat are not very healthy but the ones which are will keep me healthy and I don't want to eat these much.



Why are all the tasty things bad for me and the nasty tasting things good for me , I'm cursed :lol:


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starcats
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03 Nov 2017, 7:17 pm

soloha wrote:
Anyone ever read The Autistic Brain: Thinking Across The Spectrum, by Temple Grandin? It's fascinating and she does a pretty good job, I think, of describing different things that join us.

One thing she talks about, which is backed consistently in research, is that people with Autism tend to have over developed local synaptic connections, but less developed long range ones. We are wired differently and measurably. Almost to the point they can use it for diagnosis (close, but not yet). The brain tries to adapt to this as it develops with interesting consequences (autistic traits). It's interesting how common certain co-morbids are (the neurological ones) and how many have to do with the same areas of the brain. I have ASD, ADHD, and TS. The ADHD and TS are thought to have to do with Dopamine. There is something fundamental there. Our brains connect us :)


Yes, thanks. This is what I was looking for. The social stuff to me feels like a symptom, not what autism actually is. Like I know I have issues socially, but they are a result of me not processing info the way others do, so our interactions aren't what they expect, then they treat me weirdly and I feel alone. I don't think I do anything wrong socially :D , it's other people's opinions that tell me I am. Meaning, opinions coming from the outside, not a part of me, so it's not what I am. Differences in synaptic connections makes sense as a source of the sensory sensitivity and processing differences. I've read parts of the book, I think it's time to read the whole thing!



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03 Nov 2017, 7:20 pm

Whoever says autistics can't get analogies sure is wrong. This thread has some great ones going!



Temeraire
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04 Nov 2017, 7:53 am

Being drawn towards and repelled at the same time.



Kiriae
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04 Nov 2017, 11:52 am

Constant state of culture shock - similar to the one experienced by foreigners. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_shock



ScarletIbis
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05 Nov 2017, 12:23 am

An autistic person is emotionally inside out. We have trouble getting our emotions out rather than having trouble keeping them in. Emotions are internal rather than external.

The world is made of points the NTs pretty much all see the same points. These points draw a picture that is the same for most NTs. Autistic people each wear a customized pair of infrared glasses that means we see the invisible points that the NT don’t see but we also don’t see all the points that they see. We see a different picture, even different than other autistics pictures. Our pictures are more beautiful and elaborate, but as the grass is always greener on the other side, we long to see the picture that all the NTs seem to enjoy. We come to hate our picture and seek to make it the way we think the NTs picture is. We must come to appreciate we see the world and leave our picture the way it is, add points don’t alter points.


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05 Nov 2017, 6:52 am

ScarletIbis wrote:
The world is made of points the NTs pretty much all see the same points. These points draw a picture that is the same for most NTs. Autistic people each wear a customized pair of infrared glasses that means we see the invisible points that the NT don’t see but we also don’t see all the points that they see. We see a different picture, even different than other autistics pictures. Our pictures are more beautiful and elaborate, but as the grass is always greener on the other side, we long to see the picture that all the NTs seem to enjoy. We come to hate our picture and seek to make it the way we think the NTs picture is. We must come to appreciate we see the world and leave our picture the way it is, add points don’t alter points.



I used to think a lot about how there is no way to actually know if what I see is the same as another person. We all recognize green as green because it has a particular wavelength, but who knows if what it appears like in my brain is what it appears like in someone else's brain.



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05 Nov 2017, 7:45 am

starcats wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
The world is made of points the NTs pretty much all see the same points. These points draw a picture that is the same for most NTs. Autistic people each wear a customized pair of infrared glasses that means we see the invisible points that the NT don’t see but we also don’t see all the points that they see. We see a different picture, even different than other autistics pictures. Our pictures are more beautiful and elaborate, but as the grass is always greener on the other side, we long to see the picture that all the NTs seem to enjoy. We come to hate our picture and seek to make it the way we think the NTs picture is. We must come to appreciate we see the world and leave our picture the way it is, add points don’t alter points.



I used to think a lot about how there is no way to actually know if what I see is the same as another person. We all recognize green as green because it has a particular wavelength, but who knows if what it appears like in my brain is what it appears like in someone else's brain.

Hmm similarly, I have always wondered how a color blind person sees, mostly the blue-red type.
Just realized that I failed to specify, the points I refer to are not visual but rather a visual analogy for thought process. I came up with this analogy a few years back when someone said “I see your point”.


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05 Nov 2017, 8:17 am

I am in a cage at a Zoo. I know my neighbour is different but also in a cage like me. What connects us is that we are both surrounded by the same society looking in on us.



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05 Nov 2017, 12:17 pm

ScarletIbis wrote:
starcats wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
The world is made of points the NTs pretty much all see the same points. These points draw a picture that is the same for most NTs. Autistic people each wear a customized pair of infrared glasses that means we see the invisible points that the NT don’t see but we also don’t see all the points that they see. We see a different picture, even different than other autistics pictures. Our pictures are more beautiful and elaborate, but as the grass is always greener on the other side, we long to see the picture that all the NTs seem to enjoy. We come to hate our picture and seek to make it the way we think the NTs picture is. We must come to appreciate we see the world and leave our picture the way it is, add points don’t alter points.



I used to think a lot about how there is no way to actually know if what I see is the same as another person. We all recognize green as green because it has a particular wavelength, but who knows if what it appears like in my brain is what it appears like in someone else's brain.

Hmm similarly, I have always wondered how a color blind person sees, mostly the blue-red type.
Just realized that I failed to specify, the points I refer to are not visual but rather a visual analogy for thought process. I came up with this analogy a few years back when someone said “I see your point”.


I totally get and appreciate your analogy. That was just me being associative. Sorry.



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05 Nov 2017, 12:29 pm

Temeraire wrote:
I am in a cage at a Zoo. I know my neighbour is different but also in a cage like me. What connects us is that we are both surrounded by the same society looking in on us.


This is deep and also makes me sad. I feel like a trapped animal a lot. I wonder what it would take to feel like birds and squirrels all sharing the same tree. Really different physiology and mindset, free to come and go, peaceful co- habitation. Maybe some people/society in the distance observing, but not interfering in my survival needs or fun.



ScarletIbis
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05 Nov 2017, 12:40 pm

starcats wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
starcats wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
The world is made of points the NTs pretty much all see the same points. These points draw a picture that is the same for most NTs. Autistic people each wear a customized pair of infrared glasses that means we see the invisible points that the NT don’t see but we also don’t see all the points that they see. We see a different picture, even different than other autistics pictures. Our pictures are more beautiful and elaborate, but as the grass is always greener on the other side, we long to see the picture that all the NTs seem to enjoy. We come to hate our picture and seek to make it the way we think the NTs picture is. We must come to appreciate we see the world and leave our picture the way it is, add points don’t alter points.



I used to think a lot about how there is no way to actually know if what I see is the same as another person. We all recognize green as green because it has a particular wavelength, but who knows if what it appears like in my brain is what it appears like in someone else's brain.

Hmm similarly, I have always wondered how a color blind person sees, mostly the blue-red type.
Just realized that I failed to specify, the points I refer to are not visual but rather a visual analogy for thought process. I came up with this analogy a few years back when someone said “I see your point”.


I totally get and appreciate your analogy. That was just me being associative. Sorry.

Oh oops. I guess this further supports my analogy as I did not read your comment the way you wrote it. Different thought processes=communication difficulty. Well then again most people have that problem when reading anything, all you get is the words no tone or body language (not that I would understand it anyway or that there was tone to perceive). Flat effect, what can you do. 8)


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Diagnosed: High Functioning ASD 2013
Misdiagnosed (extremely likely): Bipolar II 2012

Feel free to message me if you want

Please understand that everything I write should be read with a grain of salt because I frequently adjust my views based on new information (just read a description of INTP that should explain better than I)