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Akshara
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11 Nov 2017, 12:19 am

I'm currently 55, and I've spent a lifetime learning and studying people's emotions and communication. I've had deep friends and girlfriends and work with people professionally. And I have all the symptoms described for ASD. I find that, no matter how well I connect, how well I understand and relate, I get lost completely on a regular basis. It's like, when am I wanting too much, and how can i tell when others won't tell me? When am I too excited about something and talking too much for people, and why can't they help me understand what they need? Why do they go, and so often not come back? I've so often gotten them impression that someone is mad at me for ignoring something that's obvious to them, and blaming me for it, as if I was selfish or just being difficult - when I really don't know what their issue is.

I'm sad today, 'cause my birthday last weekend was miserable, and I felt really judged by several people as if I was angry and judging them - when in truth, I was sad, and I couldn't seem to break through to them. It was the loneliest birthday I've ever had.

I just wish all this was easier. I wish people would just say what they're thinking, or want, or need to me. I'm tired.

Thanks for listening.


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11 Nov 2017, 5:34 am

I can understand your sadness, sorry that your birthday was such an unhappy time. Maybe it's time to try new ways to meet people who are likely to be more understanding. I found a great group on Meet Up with members who had issues with social anxiety, at least half of the group were aspies, and it was inclusive and accepting. I know it can be hard to find that niche which fits your needs, and finding that fit isn't always fast or easy. And it can be scary after you have experienced previous hurt. Move through that. I hope you find a good fit in the future that eases your situation and brings some joy.



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11 Nov 2017, 1:50 pm

Akshara wrote:
I'm currently 55, and I've spent a lifetime learning and studying people's emotions and communication. I've had deep friends and girlfriends and work with people professionally. And I have all the symptoms described for ASD. I find that, no matter how well I connect, how well I understand and relate, I get lost completely on a regular basis. It's like, when am I wanting too much, and how can i tell when others won't tell me? When am I too excited about something and talking too much for people, and why can't they help me understand what they need? Why do they go, and so often not come back? I've so often gotten them impression that someone is mad at me for ignoring something that's obvious to them, and blaming me for it, as if I was selfish or just being difficult - when I really don't know what their issue is.

I'm sad today, 'cause my birthday last weekend was miserable, and I felt really judged by several people as if I was angry and judging them - when in truth, I was sad, and I couldn't seem to break through to them. It was the loneliest birthday I've ever had.

I just wish all this was easier. I wish people would just say what they're thinking, or want, or need to me. I'm tired.

Thanks for listening.


Well you know you can always come here if you feel a bit low.


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11 Nov 2017, 11:23 pm

Hi Akshara – sorry to hear about you getting judged and misinterpreted on your birthday. I’m autistic and have been married a couple of times and had a long successful career and can relate to the history you describe. I have a hard time maintaining friendships too – it’s not easy for me to know if I’m making contact and communicating too often or too infrequently, wanting too much or too little. So often possible friendships just fall away. And I have certain focused interests that I like to talk about and have questions about, like physics, cosmology, health and nutrition, cats, etc. I’ve had friends who are generally interested in one or more of these topics, but they don’t have the same passion as I do to understand all the detailed aspects of them. So I’m sure I come across as strangely obsessed about such areas of knowledge. Autistics seem to communicate for the purpose of giving and getting information, while non-autistics chat/communicate to build a magical social rapport. Unfortunately people don’t always tell me if they’re really interested in lengthy discussions about health for instance, and like you, I wish they would just come out and say if they’re interested and what they need in communication. I suspect that the reason people sometimes leave and don’t maintain contact with me has to do with my focus on specific topics and situations, rather than on general socializing – by which I mean building an interpersonal rapport, making them feel comfortable around me (although I try), and finding a wide range of common interests (like sport teams, light contemporary political topics, cars, TV shows and personalities, etc.). What you mention about people getting mad because they think we’re ignoring something or intentionally being difficult is also familiar to me. Of course we may not be picking up on some subtle social cue, either verbal or nonverbal, because we’re wired differently neurologically. I’m sure to the non-autistic person we must seem to either be really dense or to be ignoring the cues on purpose in a passive-aggressive way. Also I’ve seen non-autistic people pretending to not understand something or otherwise being intentionally difficult in order to “one-up” another person socially. Sometimes people tolerate this and other times they get frustrated or outright angry. BTW, neurologically normal folks are often inhibited from coming out and outright saying what they need in communication or saying they’re not interested in continuing a very focused discussion because it can come across as being manipulative or confrontational and they don’t want open conflict or reprisal.

I’ve learned over the years to limit my behavior and communication to approximate a non-intense, friendly and open non-autistic person. It’s not always authentic, but people like it more. It also means I end up in conversations or social interactions that I really don’t appreciate or find valuable – like discussing football team rankings and playoffs or comedy shows. I could totally gag, lol. I also can only do this sort of behavior in limited circumstances. It’s not really an “act” – I truly do enjoy putting people at ease and having a laugh with them and genuinely empathizing with their life issues. It also means I don’t discuss what is really relevant to me, because it’s almost always too intense for others and they don’t understand autism and my interests and struggles. So if I’m asked how I’m doing, I’ll discuss peripheral issues, like sealing my deck or the skyrocketing cost of health insurance. I wish I could really be me and have others accept and appreciate me – I do it for them after all, but the only place I’m much understood is in counseling. Apparently it’s possible to “be yourself” to a greater extent with “safe people”. It’s hard for me to read people and judge their safety because of my autism and “face blindness”, so I’m still working on that. It would be wonderful if people were a bit more tolerant and understanding toward autistic folks and not misinterpret our quirks or think we’re jerks. And it would be nice if they wouldn’t dismiss or try to correct when we discuss issues stemming from autism – that can really get under my skin. I certainly would like to have better friendships and relationships. I think that’s part of what feeling we’re on the “Wrong Planet” is about.



Trashikawa
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12 Nov 2017, 12:53 am

Akshara wrote:
I just wish all this was easier. I wish people would just say what they're thinking, or want, or need to me.


Have you tried to ask them what they want?

I have a very complicated relationship with my mother. She would expect me to "read into" what she said to understand what she meant rather than to take what she said literally. As a result I realized a few years ago that I would drive myself mad if I constantly tried to assume what people expect of me and how I make them feel. Because talking to her was driving me mad.

Nowadays, I operate by a simple rule: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and, when in doubt, always ask.

Perhaps this is a product of a shift in mentality in recent generations, but I've found that asking a blunt question very often leads to receiving an honest response. While you do have to be careful to prevent from being overly rude, you don't need to be particularly courteous either.

Here are examples of blunt questions I've asked and received honest answers to:

"Do I make you uncomfortable?"

"Are you okay with me talking to you?"

"Are you angry at me?"

And, in a time of particular desperation: "What do you want from me?"

I'm absolutely horrible at reading peoples' emotions in the moment. Oftentimes I only realize I've upset someone when I have time to process the interaction more fully. So whenever I assume I've done something wrong, I take a reality check - to ensure that my internal perception corresponds to my external reality. Sometimes, I find I've upset people. Sometimes, I find that I haven't, and have only been making myself anxious and guilty by assuming as much.

The trick that's helped me best is to make people feel comfortable approaching me and telling me if they have a problem with anything I do. The people who take my questions in stride and make an effort to answer them are the people I try my hardest to form relationships with. The people who don't are people I have no interest in keeping in my life.

You can't change who you are. Some people will love you for it. Some people won't, and that's okay - not everyone has good taste.

I understand that this may not be applicable to your situation. Nevertheless, I hope that a different perspective on the subject might be able to help you find your own solution to the problems you're experiencing. Best of luck.


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johntober
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12 Nov 2017, 1:22 am

I have been alone most of my life but I have never been lonely.



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12 Nov 2017, 1:35 am

I thought that the fifties were one of the two most difficult and isolated decades in my life, OP. The forties were the other. I remember how utterly alone I felt at times, and there was no-one who would have understood this from an AS perspective, and asking people what they wanted of me would have been a recipe for disaster.

My sixties and now my seventies are much happier, peaceful, fulfilled and even social than the awful 40-60 life stages. So don't give up hope. And as someone said, you can always post on WP when the loneliness is like a knife in the heart.

If you want support, without advice attached, consider opening your thread in The Haven as it is designated for support in a way that the other forums aren't, and has slightly different rules. Sometimes when you just want to express your pain, and have it acknowledged, without the complication of other people's issues, it is the best and safest forum to post threads in.

PS: If you want me to move this one to The Haven, I can do that, just let me know.



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12 Nov 2017, 1:54 am

I am currently in a rural location, and probably the only person in the vicinity without family support. I'll never "belong" here; I just have one good friend who is here 'till his mom dies, who I see monthly. I had expected to enjoy life in an "electronic cottage" but then Facebonk seduced all the listservs into going off-topic forever. (present company excepted)
Re: 55. For my 55th, I found myself with enough friends for a party for the first time in many years, so I had them over. Nobody knew how old I was, though, so the cake arrived with 4 candles, expecting to represent the right decade.
My 57th was a "perfect wave" of disaster, leading to a year of chaos and moving 1,000 miles away. (+- .5 mi!) My 58th was the best ever.



AngryAngryAngry
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12 Nov 2017, 3:08 am

I don't bother with birthdays. They are meaningless.
It's all a build up for unhappiness, a popularity competition. Also people buying presents that you don't want, or have to pretend you appreciate.

I find that now I no longer care, and have a very cavalier/indifferent attitude - people like me more!
You see most people are fickle, and when you mimic that, they think you're the same as them.
People are VERY afraid of other people, so when you are standoffish and non commital, you don't scare them.
The opposite happens, you become non threatening and a mystery, they want to know more.

For instance if they invited you somewhere. You give a non committed answer: Maybe. I'll have to see what else I have going on.
Even if they said, you need to confirm you are coming, you say: can I email you my answer, or call you back in an hour?

This is a very important strategy in dating, and dating is just an intensification of regular socialisation.
People hide their true identities, even for years, before they are comfortable revealing benign things about themselves to others. Most friendships are very fickle, and even if you get to the 2 year mark, you may not be their best friend.
The reason alcohol is so popular, is it allows NT's to be a little truthful! But also gives them an excuse, if they say too much truth! And also makes it okay to be a little more friendly than usual. That is why they say "lets have a drink and relax" relax for the deception & false fronts they have up at all times!

NT's are very afraid to say something that others might dislike, for fear of being isolated from the group.



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12 Nov 2017, 4:58 am

@Akshara - I'm also 55, autistic and bipolar and alone like you, and in a way, that's good for me to know. I'm not alone in my despair.

I moved away from a big city recently. Now I'm in a town with a population of around 3,500 folks. I don't feel happy yet because I'm making adjustments. I suspect I should start feeling happy and comfortable in about a month or so. Physically, I feel okay; mentally, not so much.

Thanks for your brave post.



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13 Nov 2017, 9:29 am

This sounds like me. I know I am too open and want to connect with others too deeply, and I guess this scares them away. I wish at least other AS people would be so open back, then I wouldn't care about NT ways of being or feel so lonely. There are a few people I work with who I'm pretty sure are ND, and being blocked out by them is the most difficult. I can feel their conscious effort to ignore me and try to befriend the NTs. It hurts and it's lonely.



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13 Nov 2017, 12:19 pm

starcats wrote:
This sounds like me. I know I am too open and want to connect with others too deeply, and I guess this scares them away. I wish at least other AS people would be so open back, then I wouldn't care about NT ways of being or feel so lonely. There are a few people I work with who I'm pretty sure are ND, and being blocked out by them is the most difficult. I can feel their conscious effort to ignore me and try to befriend the NTs. It hurts and it's lonely.


I know a guy who wants to connect on a deep level, or not at all. He has no patience for a gradual increase of trust. It may be that the gradual way had been used to deceive him, or it just does not register as progress.
My problem stems from my AS mother treating me like a seedling until I picked up enough words to converse with her properly. My "baby duck" reflex to follow mom is still trying to connect with something, and so I want friends to substitute for family.



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13 Nov 2017, 1:36 pm

Don't worry honey. I can confirm that NT life isn't some golden globe!

I believe in YOU!


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starcats
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13 Nov 2017, 10:06 pm

Dear_one wrote:
starcats wrote:
This sounds like me. I know I am too open and want to connect with others too deeply, and I guess this scares them away. I wish at least other AS people would be so open back, then I wouldn't care about NT ways of being or feel so lonely. There are a few people I work with who I'm pretty sure are ND, and being blocked out by them is the most difficult. I can feel their conscious effort to ignore me and try to befriend the NTs. It hurts and it's lonely.


I know a guy who wants to connect on a deep level, or not at all. He has no patience for a gradual increase of trust. It may be that the gradual way had been used to deceive him, or it just does not register as progress.
My problem stems from my AS mother treating me like a seedling until I picked up enough words to converse with her properly. My "baby duck" reflex to follow mom is still trying to connect with something, and so I want friends to substitute for family.



Gradual increase of trust, hmm. No, I don't do that at all. I either trust fully and openly or not at all. It doesn't register as something I'm supposed to do. I suppose this is why I love animals. They either completely connect, or they have obvious, readable signals for fear or territorialism. I've only seen gradual increase of trust with animals necessary when they've been previously abused. I also try to substitute friends for lack of family.



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14 Nov 2017, 10:20 pm

starcats wrote:
Gradual increase of trust, hmm. No, I don't do that at all. I either trust fully and openly or not at all. It doesn't register as something I'm supposed to do. I suppose this is why I love animals. They either completely connect, or they have obvious, readable signals for fear or territorialism. I've only seen gradual increase of trust with animals necessary when they've been previously abused. I also try to substitute friends for lack of family.


Quite often, gradual is the only possibility. There are people who can feed birds and squirrels from their hand, but they have to work at it. Even stray dogs have to be fed from a distance at first by their would-be adopters. If you want to borrow a million dollars, you have to borrow and return a thousand first.



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15 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm

Dear_one wrote:
starcats wrote:
Gradual increase of trust, hmm. No, I don't do that at all. I either trust fully and openly or not at all. It doesn't register as something I'm supposed to do. I suppose this is why I love animals. They either completely connect, or they have obvious, readable signals for fear or territorialism. I've only seen gradual increase of trust with animals necessary when they've been previously abused. I also try to substitute friends for lack of family.


Quite often, gradual is the only possibility. There are people who can feed birds and squirrels from their hand, but they have to work at it. Even stray dogs have to be fed from a distance at first by their would-be adopters. If you want to borrow a million dollars, you have to borrow and return a thousand first.


Yes, I see that. Gradual trust from the other being. I was thinking of it more like training horses. From my side, I can tell instantly if I'm going to get on and ride or be kicked, trust is there or not. The wilder or more previously abused the horse, the more totally open and present I find I need to be to connect and get them to feel comfortable with me. Ironically, that's the thing that drives humans away. I wonder what would happen if I thought of myself as the squirrel needing to work up to trusting people.