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RetroGamer87
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19 Nov 2017, 6:42 am

NorthWind wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
[quote="RetroGamer87 wrote:
"] 2. is definitely true. I wouldn't mention being single and not because I might want to towards strangers for precisely this reason. Some feminists just don't react nicely to it at all and act like you are sabotaging their women's rights movement if you say you're not single because you want to and you're female.
It's also not necessarily good to mention it toward males. They'll usually not get mad at an involuntarily single woman but some may over interpret it.

Then they're shooting themselves in the foot. If I was single and a girl told me that she was lonely and wanted a boyfriend, I wouldn't be telling her how much harder it is for me to get a girlfriend, I'd be asking her out.

No wonder it's hard for these guys to get a girlfriend if they think meeting a single girl who wants a boyfriend is an opportunity to talk gender politics. Maybe that's why I've got a girlfriend and they don't 8)

I think you either misread what I wrote or I worded it wrongly or I'm misreading something now. I didn't say it was guys who try to talk gender politics (the gender politics is why I wouldn't mention it to women who may be feminists). Just that I would not want to seem desperate for a relationship towards a guy if I am not interested in this particular guy or if this is a bad time for me to start a relationship. He'd likely interpret it as a try to start a relationship with him or as an invitation for casual sex.
I was talking about reasons why, even involuntarily single women may be hesitant to mention it towards other people in general and thus why it may seem that they don't exist. If she's interested in this guy and too socially awkward to think of a better way to let him know she's interested, saying that she can't find a boyfriend and doesn't want to be single may not be the worst idea. It just can lead to awkward situations if mentioned to the wrong kind of guy and if she constantly mentions it she's bound to also mention it to the wrong kind of person.

Oh. Now I get it. I thought you meant when a girl mentions she's single the guy will complain how he has it so much harder than her.


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Trogluddite
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19 Nov 2017, 10:45 am

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So the problem isn't their age, the problem is that you want a girl who's never been in a relationship before? So you can be each other's first love?


And if this is the case, there's a difficult but important question that needs to be asked:

Am I so hung up about this because of insecurity about my own lack of experience?

"First love" is also ridiculously over-romanticised and idealised in our society. If it was so wonderful, everyone's "first love" would end up being their partner for life, whereas in reality most "first love" relationships are brief, clumsy and fraught with miscommunication. Obviously, I don't know this first hand, but all of my "settled down" friends that I've ever spoken to about it have agreed on this point.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Nov 2017, 11:11 am

hurtloam wrote:
I have never mentioned this subject to a male in real life.


That’s normal, most women wouldn’t.
And most men wouldn’t mention this subject to a female in real life.

There are things that people don’t talk about to the opposite sex and this is one of them.



sly279
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19 Nov 2017, 4:40 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Trogluddite wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I accept reality which is something a lot of women need to do.

sly279 wrote:
I just want what everyone else got in their 20s that’s all I want

Wishing to turn back the clock is not "accepting reality" (I'm assuming the age next to your avatar is accurate, naturally.)

sly279 wrote:
If you extremely limit your dating pool you only blame yourself

...erm...
sly279 wrote:
I won’t date some $40-50 old
sly279 wrote:
woman 20-35
sly279 wrote:
with few past relationships


sly279 wrote:
Why would they date a chubby ok looking woman vs a actual model?

Because of this...
sly279 wrote:
to be truely wanted.


I had my first serious relationship this summer (Note: the forum has messed up my birthday somehow, I'm actually 47.)
She's over a decade older than me, has grown up children, etc.
I really, really enjoyed the, ahem...
sly279 wrote:
first experience excitement
.

Here's the rub.

Q1.) Is a "youthful excitement" relationship better than with someone older and more experienced?
A1.) I don't know, and I'm never going to know. Maybe nor are you.

Q2.) Was my relationship with an older woman better than when I was single and lonely?
A2.) Undoubtedly.

All that matters is whether the person you are with right now puts you in a happier place than you were in before. By idealising what you think a youthful relationship is like, you are cutting off the possibility of having a different kind of relationship, with a different kind of woman, that could be just as rewarding, albeit maybe in different ways.

As for your blatant ageism - I'll let you off, as really I do understand how passionate the frustration can make people, I felt it myself for several decades. :wink:


Good post

I understand Sky's wish to have someone new and excited by newfound love. I'd always had that ideal too.

But it doesn't bother me so much any more.

Sly you know how you're saying that if you are all a person needs personality wise then a job shouldn't matter. Also if a person is all you need then their age won't actually matter.

Not a lot of youthful energetic 40 old women who’ve never had a relationship though. Most women by 30 have had tons of relationships. Heck most have multiple kids by 25 around here. Finding older women with nonor few relationships who have a playful personality and are energetic and romantic and excited about love is hard if not impossible.

So the problem isn't their age, the problem is that you want a girl who's never been in a relationship before? So you can be each other's first love?

In that case age has nothing to do with it. An 18 year old may already have had several relationships and a 30 year old may never had had one.


I dont know about that I’ve loved other women. We never were in a official relationship though.

A 30old woman will have a lot more relationships then a 18 old
Say on a age a wo,an has 2-3 relationships a year. Some have less some have more.
So a 30 old woman on a age could have had 30-45 relationships. A 40 old woman could have had 50-75 relationships. While a 18 old could have 6-9 relationships, a 25 old could had 20-30. So the older a woman gets the more relationships she’s likely had. On average. Some may have had non. While I’ve known a few women to have 2-4 a month. So 24-48 a year. Most women don’t seem to have trouble finding relationships. Not saying some here don’t have problems. But your avagre nt woman who’s pretty doesn’t have issues and doesn’t stay single long.

Someone who’s had 20+ relationships has gotten the excitement out of relationships they’ve experienced everything. I’ve experienced nothing. Everything will be new and exciting for me in a relationship which will just be annoying to them they’ve already experienced it they don’t want thst stuff they want to be serious save for a house, have kids. Most relationships stuff is old and boring to them.

So the same reason a lot of women here don’t think a 18/19 woman shouldn’t date a 30 old guy is why I shouldn’t date a 30 old or older woman. I’m just as naive if not more so then a 18-20old woman. I’m certainly more naive then the 18 old woman I game with.

I get along better with younger women.go figure. Most my friends were younger too until they grow older and out paced me in adultness.
I certainly would prefer a woman with no experience birth relationship wise and sexually. Such women are a rare minority. So the fewer the better. The less they reject me the less they’ll find me annoying for my inexperience and naivety



Trogluddite
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19 Nov 2017, 11:07 pm

sly279 wrote:
Someone who’s had 20+ relationships has gotten the excitement out of relationships they’ve experienced everything. I’ve experienced nothing. Everything will be new and exciting for me in a relationship which will just be annoying to them they’ve already experienced it they don’t want thst stuff they want to be serious save for a house, have kids. Most relationships stuff is old and boring to them.

You've spoken to these women at great length then, I assume, seeing as you are so intimately aware of all this incredibly personal information about them?

sly279 wrote:
Most women don’t seem to have trouble finding relationships.

As you seem keen on the application of arithmetic to the problem, consider this: It takes two people to have a relationship, the number of hetero men is about the same as the number of hetero women, and polygamy is uncommon. It is a mathematical certainty that on average hetero men and hetero women are equally promiscuous (this, of course, does not tell us how likely they are to lie about it!) Therefore, most men don't seem to have trouble finding relationships, either.

sly279 wrote:
The less they reject me the less they’ll find me annoying for my inexperience and naivety

And the less annoying you are, the less they'll reject you for being inexperienced and naive.


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sly279
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20 Nov 2017, 12:56 am

Trogluddite wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Someone who’s had 20+ relationships has gotten the excitement out of relationships they’ve experienced everything. I’ve experienced nothing. Everything will be new and exciting for me in a relationship which will just be annoying to them they’ve already experienced it they don’t want thst stuff they want to be serious save for a house, have kids. Most relationships stuff is old and boring to them.

You've spoken to these women at great length then, I assume, seeing as you are so intimately aware of all this incredibly personal information about them?

sly279 wrote:
Most women don’t seem to have trouble finding relationships.

As you seem keen on the application of arithmetic to the problem, consider this: It takes two people to have a relationship, the number of hetero men is about the same as the number of hetero women, and polygamy is uncommon. It is a mathematical certainty that on average hetero men and hetero women are equally promiscuous (this, of course, does not tell us how likely they are to lie about it!) Therefore, most men don't seem to have trouble finding relationships, either.

sly279 wrote:
The less they reject me the less they’ll find me annoying for my inexperience and naivety

And the less annoying you are, the less they'll reject you for being inexperienced and naive.


Unless lots of women have relationships with the same few men. Quite a few men are in multiple relationships until the women find out about each other. Handsome well off men get relationships more then men like me especially in my area with 3,000 extra men. A guy could dated 40 women. So those 40 women had relationships while if there were 40 women and 40 men 39men didn’t. So there isn’t a equal number of guys who’ve had relationships to women who have, also those well off guys get around.
My niece and my sisters friend have never had problems jumping from guy to guy. She broke up with her husband and already has a guy less then week later. Same for my sisters friend (who I was into) she’d never go more then 2 weeks without a boyfriend. Those guys found other women too.

If the logic of 1/1 was true I’d have had atleast one gf in 15 years. Could you honestly dispute that a small population of guys get most the women?
Not at the same time , except for players who cheat and have 2-4 gfs at once.

Sorry I can’t get less annoying without getting s gf and experiencing that stuff. Inexperienced is only gotten rid of with experience. Catch 22. FYI Incase you missed it they find me annoying because I’m inexperienced and naive while they are not from having relationships.



Closet Genious
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20 Nov 2017, 5:42 am

"As you seem keen on the application of arithmetic to the problem, consider this: It takes two people to have a relationship, the number of hetero men is about the same as the number of hetero women, and polygamy is uncommon. It is a mathematical certainty that on average hetero men and hetero women are equally promiscuous (this, of course, does not tell us how likely they are to lie about it!) Therefore, most men don't seem to have trouble finding relationships, either."

I'm sorry mate, but this is not a mathmatical certainty at all.



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20 Nov 2017, 6:22 am

sly279 wrote:
So a 30 old woman on a age could have had 30-45 relationships. A 40 old woman could have had 50-75 relationships. While a 18 old could have 6-9 relationships, a 25 old could had 20-30.

What!? I've dated plenty of women over 25 and a few in their early 30s and none of them have had more than 5 relationships. I don't know where you're getting that 25-30 year old women have had dozens of relationships.


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20 Nov 2017, 7:06 am

sly279 wrote:
If the logic of 1/1 was true I’d have had atleast one gf in 15 years. Could you honestly dispute that a small population of guys get most the women?

This has been my experience too. At least, when reading relationship ads the profiles are not looking for males like me. They are generally looking for a single financially stable adventurous fit outgoing exciting travel-friendly partner. Women today usually can support themselves and are looking for somebody ‘issue free’ in regards to socializing, traveling, or day to day living. There’s nothing wrong with that but it makes it hard for those of us who are less than financially stable adventurous fit outgoing exciting travel friendly and more issue laden.

@slyy279 Don’t give up! I know how totally frustrating all this is. I’ve learned to date myself, apparently, a fade among middle class women now. It’s not that bad but I don’t take myself places anymore but I’m okay with that. :cheers:


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20 Nov 2017, 7:17 am

^ I have no problem if they support themselves and able to do that - and want someone equal from that perspective.

I have a problem tho with the women who CAN'T support themselves and yet rely on men to achieve these leisure dreams; and expect these things from men. And I dare to say this is very common, the dating up mentality is still very ...very common.



Trogluddite
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20 Nov 2017, 8:05 am

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If the logic of 1/1 was true I’d have had atleast one gf in 15 years.

Yes, that was the point. You are applying arithmetic and "logic" to a problem space where it isn't going to tell you anything useful. The problem, and potential solutions, are social in nature, and can only be solved by thinking about them in a social way. Hard for many autistic people, I know, but that's just how it is. The temptation to use styles of reasoning that are more comfortable for us is something I understand, and I often fall into that trap myself.

Quote:
Could you honestly dispute that a small population of guys get most the women?

Yes, I would dispute that. It is the people who struggle like we do who are the "small population". But you are sitting at your computer complaining about this on a forum in which there is an unnaturally high concentration of people who are very similar to you. Beware of the "echo chamber" effect!

Quote:
What!? I've dated plenty of women over 25 and a few in their early 30s and none of them have had more than 5 relationships.

Indeed. The (admittedly self reported) average seems to be around 6-12 partners in a lifetime in most studies that I've seen reported. And there's also a good chance that "quantity" and "quality" may well be inversely correlated.

Which brings up another question to always ask yourself honestly. Are you looking for a "relationship" or "sex". No judgement intended, either is cool as long as pursued in good faith. But be careful not to mix up one-night-stands with relationships.

@sly279
I realise that I seem to have singled out your posts for comment. Please don't take this as a personal slight. Far from it, I appreciate that you are just being honest, and you describe your thinking in a very clear way. It chimes with me, because it is exactly as I would have thought at your age (and much older too!) I understand the pain and frustration, and I don't mean to belittle it.


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314pe
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20 Nov 2017, 9:31 am

Trogluddite wrote:
"First love" is also ridiculously over-romanticised and idealised in our society. If it was so wonderful, everyone's "first love" would end up being their partner for life, whereas in reality most "first love" relationships are brief, clumsy and fraught with miscommunication. Obviously, I don't know this first hand, but all of my "settled down" friends that I've ever spoken to about it have agreed on this point.

The reason is that love is the only part where we blindly follow emotions. Sure emotions affect other decisions too, but only people in love can act so dumb. If you don't agree then watch "Like Crazy".



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20 Nov 2017, 10:15 am

@Trogluddite: Pretty much every single point of yours is completely wrong...

If you're honestly gonna argue that the top 10% of men don't have more sexual partners than the bottom 90%, I'm afraid you're the one who is sitting behind a computer screen and not observing what is happening in the real world. In my opinion, you have to be a complete idiot to suggest that.

Also pretty much EVERY SINGLE STUDY shows that a high number of sex partners, increases the likelyhood of divorce.



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20 Nov 2017, 4:40 pm

Ok. Anyway. Back to the topic.

I feel like I've got everything I can out of the forum and it's time for me to start my new single life.

Going pretty ok so far. There's more places yo meet up with people in the city and I've joined a gym and I've got some furniture restoration projects to do to keep me busy.

So it's bye from me. I may dip in again at another point. But probably not for the rest of 2017.

Au revoir.



sly279
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20 Nov 2017, 5:42 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
So a 30 old woman on a age could have had 30-45 relationships. A 40 old woman could have had 50-75 relationships. While a 18 old could have 6-9 relationships, a 25 old could had 20-30.

What!? I've dated plenty of women over 25 and a few in their early 30s and none of them have had more than 5 relationships. I don't know where you're getting that 25-30 year old women have had dozens of relationships.


I got it from the average of 2-3 relationships a year. Meaning some women have less and some women have more. I’ve known some to have 2-4 a month which is 24-48 a month if they kept that pattern up by 25 they’d have had 240-480 relationships. Clearly all women don’t do that but neither to all or most women have 0 relationships a year. So I settled around 2-3 a year for average.

It’s all guessing though as I’d have to poll hundreds of thousands if not millions of women for what I’d consider a proper surgery and stats that’d come out of it.
I don’t feel 2-3 a year on average is that high an estimate though. If for every hurtloam with 0 relationships there’s a woman with 48 a year. The actual average would be 24 a year. But more then likely hurtloam and that woman are minorities on opposite sides of the scale. Bunch of women will stay with one guy for years while others months. 4 relationships a year would be 4 3 month long short term relationships. Super doable. 2=2 six month relationships,3=3 4 month relationships. I see a lot of women on Facebook have multiple relationships each year. 2-3 again I feel is reasonable.



sly279
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20 Nov 2017, 5:45 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Ok. Anyway. Back to the topic.

I feel like I've got everything I can out of the forum and it's time for me to start my new single life.

Going pretty ok so far. There's more places yo meet up with people in the city and I've joined a gym and I've got some furniture restoration projects to do to keep me busy.

So it's bye from me. I may dip in again at another point. But probably not for the rest of 2017.

Au revoir.


I’ll miss you. I enjoyed our chats :(