Dog massacre in Jordan
14 Nov 2017, 11:45 pm
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not justifying this in any way. But I think if they were rats, no one would care. And if they were hyenas or jackals, people would probably care a lot less. And really don't most countries like the US have animal control and dog pounds where dogs are "put to sleep" by the hundreds?
Most are trying to switch to no kill shelters.
I don't have a problem with hyenas or jackals.Predators are good for a healthy ecosystem.It can be problematic when they raid livestock and I can understand why nuisance animals would be shot.
Rats aren't a problem here for me,we have wood rats and they are rather cute.Except for when they chew the spark plug wires off the car.I'm not going to exterminate them for that.Peppermint oil works well as a repellant or keep the hood up in a garage.If you had an infestation in an apartment building that's different.Rats chewing wiring could burn the whole thing down and adjoining structures.
Well the whole thing in Jordan was set off by a little girl dying because she was attacked by a rabid stray dog. Really it seems like they had inefficient animal control in the past. I'm guessing they don't have a spay and neuter system like we do either. I definitely do not like the idea of dogs being killed. But I don't see the people of Jordan doing it because they are inhumane monsters or whatever.
Yes it is inhumane.How many family pets did they accidentally kill?
Greece also has no spay or neuter program but they manage the stray dog problem humanly.
The United States kills over 600,000 dogs a year, that's a fact according to the ASPCA. If a stray pet dog gets captured by animal control, and is not claimed, it is killed. And I'm sure that happens a lot. There's really no difference in what Jordan is doing. Jordan has killed like 500 dogs. Your homeland has kills 2.7 million dogs and cats a year.
And it's wrong.But they also try to find out if the dog has an owner and try to find it a home.It has a chance,it's not just shot on sight.
There is no excuse for that many unwanted animals.People should spay and neuter.There are free and reduced prices clinics here in most places.
Good luck turning your dog out in the garden,like an owner mentioned in one of the links I posted.They shot that dog,and it wasn't a stray.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
15 Nov 2017, 12:19 am
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not justifying this in any way. But I think if they were rats, no one would care. And if they were hyenas or jackals, people would probably care a lot less. And really don't most countries like the US have animal control and dog pounds where dogs are "put to sleep" by the hundreds?
Most are trying to switch to no kill shelters.
I don't have a problem with hyenas or jackals.Predators are good for a healthy ecosystem.It can be problematic when they raid livestock and I can understand why nuisance animals would be shot.
Rats aren't a problem here for me,we have wood rats and they are rather cute.Except for when they chew the spark plug wires off the car.I'm not going to exterminate them for that.Peppermint oil works well as a repellant or keep the hood up in a garage.If you had an infestation in an apartment building that's different.Rats chewing wiring could burn the whole thing down and adjoining structures.
Well the whole thing in Jordan was set off by a little girl dying because she was attacked by a rabid stray dog. Really it seems like they had inefficient animal control in the past. I'm guessing they don't have a spay and neuter system like we do either. I definitely do not like the idea of dogs being killed. But I don't see the people of Jordan doing it because they are inhumane monsters or whatever.
Yes it is inhumane.How many family pets did they accidentally kill?
Greece also has no spay or neuter program but they manage the stray dog problem humanly.
The United States kills over 600,000 dogs a year, that's a fact according to the ASPCA. If a stray pet dog gets captured by animal control, and is not claimed, it is killed. And I'm sure that happens a lot. There's really no difference in what Jordan is doing. Jordan has killed like 500 dogs. Your homeland has kills 2.7 million dogs and cats a year.
And it's wrong.But they also try to find out if the dog has an owner and try to find it a home.It has a chance,it's not just shot on sight.
There is no excuse for that many unwanted animals.People should spay and neuter.There are free and reduced prices clinics here in most places.
Good luck turning your dog out in the garden,like an owner mentioned in one of the links I posted.They shot that dog,and it wasn't a stray.
Okay, I'll give. They are all just a bunch of inhumane murdering savages. Better? Really isn't this the sort of thing an Islamophobe would use to vilify Muslims since their main reason stated for doing this is because it's the Muslim thing to do according to fatwa.
15 Nov 2017, 12:47 am
Sweetleaf wrote:
Though I would point out Australia is doing much the same thing to cats, haven't seen any horrific pictures like the ones provided in the link in regards to that yet. They aren't justifying it with religion however, but yeah still very inhumane.
Do you mean farmers shooting feral cats and dogs? the animals in question grow abnormally large and fearsome - are a menace to livestock and people in the bush. Local pounds humanely put down cats and dogs in Australia but I think you'll find Americans and Canadians deal with strays in exactly the same way.
15 Nov 2017, 12:52 am
Misslizard wrote:
/\I said nothing bad about Islam.Never once have.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
I never said that you did. I said an Islamophobe could. A lot Jordanians are upset about it just like a lot of Americans are upset about over 2.7 million dogs and cats being put down. Some pet's have been killed in Jordan the same as some pets have been killed by animal control in America. But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
15 Nov 2017, 12:59 am
EzraS wrote:
But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
I think in the current moral framework social norms have been codified under law to allow abattoirs to kills "food animals" on the understanding that they are terminated humanely
In the future the lack of sustainability of grain fed meat will eventually lead to the complete cessation of farmed animals
15 Nov 2017, 1:13 am
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\I said nothing bad about Islam.Never once have.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
I never said that you did. I said an Islamophobe could. A lot Jordanians are upset about it just like a lot of Americans are upset about over 2.7 million dogs and cats being put down. Some pet's have been killed in Jordan the same as some pets have been killed by animal control in America. But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
I don't think most people who care about animals rights are Islamaphobic.That is usually a right wing republican,like our President.I would be just as upset about it if it was happening in a small town in Alaska and Christians were doing it.
No I do not have an "ingrained code" about which animal is ok to kill.It has to do the reason and how you put it down.I have put down sick wild animals before and helped butcher out game my family hunted.
I also understand that some islands have to irradicate all non native animals to protect endangered species,like the Galápagos Islands..Non native invasive species wreck havoc on ground nesting animals.Sad,it's not the animals fault but the humans that brought them there with no foresight.
It's the manner they are going about it.
You don't have to care.But I do.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
15 Nov 2017, 3:20 am
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\I said nothing bad about Islam.Never once have.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
I never said that you did. I said an Islamophobe could. A lot Jordanians are upset about it just like a lot of Americans are upset about over 2.7 million dogs and cats being put down. Some pet's have been killed in Jordan the same as some pets have been killed by animal control in America. But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
I don't think most people who care about animals rights are Islamaphobic.That is usually a right wing republican,like our President.I would be just as upset about it if it was happening in a small town in Alaska and Christians were doing it.
No I do not have an "ingrained code" about which animal is ok to kill.It has to do the reason and how you put it down.I have put down sick wild animals before and helped butcher out game my family hunted.
I also understand that some islands have to irradicate all non native animals to protect endangered species,like the Galápagos Islands..Non native invasive species wreck havoc on ground nesting animals.Sad,it's not the animals fault but the humans that brought them there with no foresight.
It's the manner they are going about it.
You don't have to care.But I do.
It's not that I don't care. It's just that I tend to view things dispassionately. I'm not really capable of getting upset over things that I have absolutely no control over and that don't affect me directly.
So what would your immediate practical solution be to Jordan's infestation of wild potentially rabid dogs? Like if you were in charge and you had to take the swiftist most direct action requied to eliminate the infestation, what would it be?
15 Nov 2017, 8:05 am
Stray dogs are a dangerous epidemic. They form packs and kill daily to survive including pets, wildlife, livestock and people (Mostly elderly and children). They breed and spread disease. Programs that chemically euthanize or spay/neuter are drastically expensive and difficult to do. Spay/neutering does nothing to remove the dangerous animal from the streets.
I'll agree that if they are wounding animals and leaving them to suffer that is wrong. If they are taking pets from yards that is wrong as well but shooting strays can be done more humanly than putting the dog through the stress of being captured. When done right it can be instantaneous.
Facts:
-A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 found that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, sheep, and goats worth about U.S. 37 million dollars.
-According to rolling stone, Detroit alone has 50,000 stray dogs so even at $20 a dog for chemical euthanasia that's a million dollars just for one city. Not to mention the cost and difficulty of actually capturing them.
-People are attacked and killed by stray dogs all the time. Mostly elderly and children
-Stray dogs spread disease like distemper, parvovirus, heartworm, Kennel cough, ticks, fleas and mange
-Stray dogs kill wildlife and pets
15 Nov 2017, 8:12 am
Misslizard wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
Yea, we kill rats, squirrels, groundhogs, gophers and mice by the millions and billions. Cows, pigs, sheep and chickens too.
Animals raised for food should have a life before slaughter and be raised humanly.
Predators also kill in the wild,to eat or protect their territory,offspring,mate,not to just kill.
There are live traps for vermin.
Greece has stray dogs,they deal with it differently.
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2013/06/gree ... r-by-many/
You're going to live trap millions possibly billions of mice, rats, etc? That's just not possible. Plus what would you do with them? In many places it's illegal to relocate wildlife with good reason. It rapidly increases the spread of diseases like rabbis and putts stress on the environment that you're introducing them into.
Misslizard wrote:
Predators also kill in the wild,to eat or protect their territory,offspring,mate,not to just kill.
Are you implying that they are killing the dogs just to kill them?
15 Nov 2017, 8:15 am
Sweetleaf wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
Yea, we kill rats, squirrels, groundhogs, gophers and mice by the millions and billions. Cows, pigs, sheep and chickens too.
So that means it's ok to go around shooting stray dogs?
That's exactly what I am saying. What is the moral difference between setting a mouse trap and killing a mouse and shooting a stray dog?
15 Nov 2017, 11:54 am
jonny23 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
Yea, we kill rats, squirrels, groundhogs, gophers and mice by the millions and billions. Cows, pigs, sheep and chickens too.
Animals raised for food should have a life before slaughter and be raised humanly.
Predators also kill in the wild,to eat or protect their territory,offspring,mate,not to just kill.
There are live traps for vermin.
Greece has stray dogs,they deal with it differently.
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2013/06/gree ... r-by-many/
You're going to live trap millions possibly billions of mice, rats, etc? That's just not possible. Plus what would you do with them? In many places it's illegal to relocate wildlife with good reason. It rapidly increases the spread of diseases like rabbis and putts stress on the environment that you're introducing them into.
Misslizard wrote:
Predators also kill in the wild,to eat or protect their territory,offspring,mate,not to just kill.
Are you implying that they are killing the dogs just to kill them?
Did say I was going out to trap millions of mice?There are other solutions for people to use in their homes.Of course if they are around food products you will need to remove or destroy them becuse of damage and disease.Rodents aren't that big a factor in rabies,plague yes.The reason I know about rodents and rabies is that I was bit by a mole once and my son by an alpine chipmunk in Colorado.He was trying to stuff it in his pocket,served him right.I asked my physcian.Rodents usually succumb to the virus before they have a chance of spreading it.
Some of the people involved are killing the dogs just to kill them,this has given them what they think is a valid reason to kill at will.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
15 Nov 2017, 12:01 pm
jonny23 wrote:
Stray dogs are a dangerous epidemic. They form packs and kill daily to survive including pets, wildlife, livestock and people (Mostly elderly and children). They breed and spread disease. Programs that chemically euthanize or spay/neuter are drastically expensive and difficult to do. Spay/neutering does nothing to remove the dangerous animal from the streets.
I'll agree that if they are wounding animals and leaving them to suffer that is wrong. If they are taking pets from yards that is wrong as well but shooting strays can be done more humanly than putting the dog through the stress of being captured. When done right it can be instantaneous.
Facts:
-A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 found that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, sheep, and goats worth about U.S. 37 million dollars.
-According to rolling stone, Detroit alone has 50,000 stray dogs so even at $20 a dog for chemical euthanasia that's a million dollars just for one city. Not to mention the cost and difficulty of actually capturing them.
-People are attacked and killed by stray dogs all the time. Mostly elderly and children
-Stray dogs spread disease like distemper, parvovirus, heartworm, Kennel cough, ticks, fleas and mange
-Stray dogs kill wildlife and pets
I'll agree that if they are wounding animals and leaving them to suffer that is wrong. If they are taking pets from yards that is wrong as well but shooting strays can be done more humanly than putting the dog through the stress of being captured. When done right it can be instantaneous.
Facts:
-A survey by the National Agricultural Statistics Service in 1999 found that feral dogs were partly responsible for killing cows, sheep, and goats worth about U.S. 37 million dollars.
-According to rolling stone, Detroit alone has 50,000 stray dogs so even at $20 a dog for chemical euthanasia that's a million dollars just for one city. Not to mention the cost and difficulty of actually capturing them.
-People are attacked and killed by stray dogs all the time. Mostly elderly and children
-Stray dogs spread disease like distemper, parvovirus, heartworm, Kennel cough, ticks, fleas and mange
-Stray dogs kill wildlife and pets
I live in a rural area and we have to deal with feral animals,but nobody goes out and shoots all the dogs and cats running loose.We had one dig into our goat pen and latch onto our Saanen milk goat by the throat,of course we had to shoot it or let it kill the goat.But we didn't drive around later and shoot every dog on sight.Of course nuisance and sick animals have to be dealt with.
I posted a link how Greece deals with stray dogs.
Coyotes do all the things mentioned above,and I'm against killing them unless you catch one with your chicken in its mouth.
Keep your dogs vaccinations and flea treatments up to date and you won't have to worry about them catching diseases.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
15 Nov 2017, 12:05 pm
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\I said nothing bad about Islam.Never once have.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
I never said that you did. I said an Islamophobe could. A lot Jordanians are upset about it just like a lot of Americans are upset about over 2.7 million dogs and cats being put down. Some pet's have been killed in Jordan the same as some pets have been killed by animal control in America. But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
I don't think most people who care about animals rights are Islamaphobic.That is usually a right wing republican,like our President.I would be just as upset about it if it was happening in a small town in Alaska and Christians were doing it.
No I do not have an "ingrained code" about which animal is ok to kill.It has to do the reason and how you put it down.I have put down sick wild animals before and helped butcher out game my family hunted.
I also understand that some islands have to irradicate all non native animals to protect endangered species,like the Galápagos Islands..Non native invasive species wreck havoc on ground nesting animals.Sad,it's not the animals fault but the humans that brought them there with no foresight.
It's the manner they are going about it.
You don't have to care.But I do.
It's not that I don't care. It's just that I tend to view things dispassionately. I'm not really capable of getting upset over things that I have absolutely no control over and that don't affect me directly.
So what would your immediate practical solution be to Jordan's infestation of wild potentially rabid dogs? Like if you were in charge and you had to take the swiftist most direct action requied to eliminate the infestation, what would it be?
How Greece manages theirs.Of course any sick or aggressive animal should be put down,that's reasonable.Just not shooting all the dogs,some are pets,some have done nothing wrong.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
15 Nov 2017, 12:11 pm
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
/\I said nothing bad about Islam.Never once have.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
If you read any of the links I posted you'd see that Jordanians are also upset about the whole deal.
I never said that you did. I said an Islamophobe could. A lot Jordanians are upset about it just like a lot of Americans are upset about over 2.7 million dogs and cats being put down. Some pet's have been killed in Jordan the same as some pets have been killed by animal control in America. But you seem to have a very ingrained code as to which animals it's okay to kill and under what circumstances it's okay to kill them.
I don't think most people who care about animals rights are Islamaphobic.That is usually a right wing republican,like our President.I would be just as upset about it if it was happening in a small town in Alaska and Christians were doing it.
No I do not have an "ingrained code" about which animal is ok to kill.It has to do the reason and how you put it down.I have put down sick wild animals before and helped butcher out game my family hunted.
I also understand that some islands have to irradicate all non native animals to protect endangered species,like the Galápagos Islands..Non native invasive species wreck havoc on ground nesting animals.Sad,it's not the animals fault but the humans that brought them there with no foresight.
It's the manner they are going about it.
You don't have to care.But I do.
It's not that I don't care. It's just that I tend to view things dispassionately. I'm not really capable of getting upset over things that I have absolutely no control over and that don't affect me directly.
So what would your immediate practical solution be to Jordan's infestation of wild potentially rabid dogs? Like if you were in charge and you had to take the swiftist most direct action requied to eliminate the infestation, what would it be?
How Greece manages theirs.Of course any sick or aggressive animal should be put down,that's reasonable.Just not shooting all the dogs,some are pets,some have done nothing wrong.
I'm afraid I'm not up on Greece's method of exterminating wild dogs. Did they have the same situation that's taking place in Jordan for it to apply?
15 Nov 2017, 12:19 pm
Misslizard wrote:
Did say I was going out to trap millions of mice?There are other solutions for people to use in their homes.Of course if they are around food products you will need to remove or destroy them becuse of damage and disease.Rodents aren't that big a factor in rabies,plague yes.The reason I know about rodents and rabies is that I was bit by a mole once and my son by an alpine chipmunk in Colorado.He was trying to stuff it in his pocket,served him right.I asked my physcian.Rodents usually succumb to the virus before they have a chance of spreading it.
Rodents also chew up insulation and house wires. Ruin cloths, photo albums and other household items. It's not just your food they are after. And we're not just talking about homes. They destroy crops and ruin car wiring. What other solutions does a farmer have when they have hundreds or thousands of mice eating their product?
Misslizard wrote:
Some of the people involved are killing the dogs just to kill them,this has given them what they think is a valid reason to kill at will.
Evidence?
