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Lost_dragon
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16 Nov 2017, 4:43 pm

So I've been thinking about a conversation I had. I was explaining to someone how I sometimes feel stressed when I see that others are stressed, and do have times in my life where I find it difficult to differentiate my own feelings from the feelings of others to the point where even if I'm not stressed and I don't know what in particular is stressing them out, I may feel uneasy or stressed myself as a result.

They just responded to me "That's not how empathy works :?", and suggested that I felt stressed for a reason that I wasn't fully conscious of, and suggested that if I ever feel like this again I should put thought into what's stressing me.

But, I don't feel like anything is stressing me, it's just concern for the other person turns into stress because it's almost like I can physically feel their stress, you know? Or am I just crazy? This might be the wrong section to post this in, idk.


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TheAP
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16 Nov 2017, 5:49 pm

What did they mean when they said that's not how empathy works? Did they mean they think it's impossible to actually feel someone's emotions? You may be experiencing hyperempathy (not uncommon in ASD individuals), and they just might not know about it.



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16 Nov 2017, 5:54 pm

I agree with TheAP.
It sounds like you have more empathy than a normal NT does,
hence, they do not understand or believe you.



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16 Nov 2017, 5:56 pm

No, that's not crazy. It seems like a pretty normal thing. They were talking about that at some lecture on sensory issues (with an autistic audience), and most people there could relate to this. That you catch other's emotions really easily and it's sometimes hard to tell which ones are your own and which are theirs. Because you don't necessarily know what the feeling is or where it comes from, but you still somehow pick up on it, and then you have it but don't know where it came from.
I know someone who takes on other people's emotions and even exaggerates them, so if someone around them is just a little bit anxious, they can get worked up to the point of a meltdown.



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16 Nov 2017, 7:36 pm

That's exactly what empathy is as far as I know. If you think you're not autistic, have you ever looked up highly sensitive person? Or empath? I'm not exactly sure how those things are different from each other. Maybe hsp's and empaths don't have learning disorders? Or they're the same, but different label depending on what you're comfortable with? For any of the above, hyperempathy would be a part of it.



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16 Nov 2017, 11:49 pm

There's two kinds of empathy: Affective Empathy and Cognitive Empathy.

Affective empathy is the ability to perceive the emotional state of someone else. Often, it also results in sharing that emotional state. Those on the spectrum are usually just as good at this as neurotypicals. We are very capable of recognising that people are sad and feeling sorry for them.

Cognitive empathyis the ability to see things from someone else's perspective. It has very little to do with emotions, but is often critical to knowing how to respond to what we learn from Affective empathy. Seeing things from a sad person's perspective is often critical to knowing what will make them feel better.

An example of a test for Cognitive empathy that has nothing to do with Affective empathy is the Sally Anne test, which can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjkTQtggLH4

The Sally Anne test is intended for five year olds, and personally I find it very easy to pass. Maybe I'm just substituting straight logic for Cognitive empathy, and maybe five year olds can't use the logic so it works as a Cognitive empathy test for them.


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17 Nov 2017, 12:01 am

Hyper empathy is something that I continuously struggle with and it's been that way for a few years now. When I was younger I had absolutely no empathy whatsoever up until about my late twenties I would say.

I'm not sure when this drastic polar shift occurred but it was very traumatic and probably one of the many reasons why I avoid eye contact because I gather too much information from just looking at another person. It can be very overwhelming. And one of the reasons that I stim aggressively.

Sometimes my emotional gathering interface with another person is so accurate that sometimes it feels like I have ESP or some crazy existential power like that. Isn't that outrageous? But like I said before I can only do this for short periods of time because I often experience information overload and overstimulation from looking at other people's eyes and faces.


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17 Nov 2017, 1:30 am

This is also a quality empaths have. I believe many autistic people are also empaths and there are NTs out there who have this characteristic too and they make about 16 percent of the population. Still too high for it to be considered a disorder.


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17 Nov 2017, 3:45 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
So I've been thinking about a conversation I had. I was explaining to someone how I sometimes feel stressed when I see that others are stressed, and do have times in my life where I find it difficult to differentiate my own feelings from the feelings of others to the point where even if I'm not stressed and I don't know what in particular is stressing them out, I may feel uneasy or stressed myself as a result.

They just responded to me "That's not how empathy works :?", and suggested that I felt stressed for a reason that I wasn't fully conscious of, and suggested that if I ever feel like this again I should put thought into what's stressing me.

But, I don't feel like anything is stressing me, it's just concern for the other person turns into stress because it's almost like I can physically feel their stress, you know? Or am I just crazy? This might be the wrong section to post this in, idk.


I have this too. :D This other person may not know you very well. Some people have more of an ability to pick up vibes because of a less defined sense of ego. It's a perfectly valid thing to feel stressed about, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. You sound really empathetic, just saying. I find it hard to function if I watch the news every day because some of the stories make me feel too sad.


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17 Nov 2017, 4:25 am

What you felt may have just been personal distress which is an egocentric reaction (not egotistical of course)...

Plus if that other person was not autistic, they would have the say from experience of what empathy is from the point of view of the majority of people.



Lost_dragon
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17 Nov 2017, 7:27 am

TheAP wrote:
What did they mean when they said that's not how empathy works? Did they mean they think it's impossible to actually feel someone's emotions? You may be experiencing hyperempathy (not uncommon in ASD individuals), and they just might not know about it.


They just didn't seem to think that feeling stressed because others are stressed made any sense, instead they argued that empathy was about putting yourself in another's perspective, rather than feeling their perspective. I'm apart of this therapy website funded on the NHS, and what they like to do is trial you with different therapists, and after awhile you get to make a choice, you can either continue with the trail and keep switching between people, ask for a named therapist and speak to the same therapist each week, or sign up for face to face counselling. They can also refer you to a specialist if they think it's appropriate.

Whilst I was on the trail version, I brought this topic up, and one of the therapists told me "That's not how empathy works". I didn't like that therapist much, because I didn't feel like we were on the same page at all, kept getting confused about what I meant and offering advice that was seemingly irrelevant. That's why I decided to apply for a named worker, and today I will have my second session with them. My named worker seems to understand me better than that other therapist, but I haven't brought up this subject with them so far.

Maybe I didn't explain it well to the other therapist? Or perhaps she just couldn't relate. It is a legitimate website though, and you'd think with all the degrees she has that she'd get it (unless she lied).


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Lost_dragon
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17 Nov 2017, 10:12 am

Update: I spoke to my named worker today about this subject, and they were really understanding about it. They just told me it meant I had a lot of empathy, and there was nothing particularly weird or wrong about that.

Also, in the session we also discussed my dislike of firm hugs, and fear of small spaces/ not being able to escape.

They also reassured me that getting someone else to comfort a person, because you don't feel that confident in that area (comforting people), is perfectly understandable and doesn't make you a bad individual. :) So overall I think it was a positive session.

8)


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17 Nov 2017, 10:42 am

I think your previous therapist had an overly simplistic view of what empathy is. They should go back and read more deeply about this topic.

The hyperempathy is definitely a thing. I relate a lot about getting confused about which feelings belong to whom, and about delegating support because of being overwhelmed and distrustful of my ability to manage the other person's feelings.


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Lost_dragon
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17 Nov 2017, 1:57 pm

underwater wrote:
I think your previous therapist had an overly simplistic view of what empathy is. They should go back and read more deeply about this topic.

The hyperempathy is definitely a thing. I relate a lot about getting confused about which feelings belong to whom, and about delegating support because of being overwhelmed and distrustful of my ability to manage the other person's feelings.


Finally, someone who gets it. Most people just assume I'm insensitive/ that I don't care, when actually I do care but I just don't feel that confident in my ability to comfort people, so I usually try to find someone else who can. If I didn't care, then I wouldn't bother getting someone else to help, I'd just leave. But I do care, and like you said it can be overwhelming at times, and sometimes I end up annoying people when I try to comfort them.


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17 Nov 2017, 2:58 pm

I think your therapist is one of those people who is in denial about autistics having the ability to feel empathy.


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Lost_dragon
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18 Nov 2017, 9:26 am

SplendidSnail wrote:
There's two kinds of empathy: Affective Empathy and Cognitive Empathy.

Affective empathy is the ability to perceive the emotional state of someone else. Often, it also results in sharing that emotional state. Those on the spectrum are usually just as good at this as neurotypicals. We are very capable of recognising that people are sad and feeling sorry for them.

Cognitive empathyis the ability to see things from someone else's perspective. It has very little to do with emotions, but is often critical to knowing how to respond to what we learn from Affective empathy. Seeing things from a sad person's perspective is often critical to knowing what will make them feel better.

An example of a test for Cognitive empathy that has nothing to do with Affective empathy is the Sally Anne test, which can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjkTQtggLH4

The Sally Anne test is intended for five year olds, and personally I find it very easy to pass. Maybe I'm just substituting straight logic for Cognitive empathy, and maybe five year olds can't use the logic so it works as a Cognitive empathy test for them.


Yeah, I think I've heard about that test before. I'm not sure what I would've said when I was five, but of course I find the test easy now. Probably would've asked why Sally was so bothered about her marble, and why Ann was known for being naughty, and if she was known for being naughty by the other character.

I know people have already pointed this out, but the way the woman asked the question was flawed. She said that Ann was naughty, and if I took that test at Primary school I'd probably ask if Sally knows of Ann's reputation of being naughty, and if she did then why leave her marble unattended with her? Why did she leave the room? Also, what if Sally planned for this? What if Sally knew that Ann would probably move the item, and since it's the only other container in the room- she might check there? Maybe Sally planned this, to prove that Ann was naughty. Perhaps she'd hidden cameras in the room to catch the moment as proof to show someone else, and/ or to blackmail Ann for something.

But of course, now I'd just say that Sally would check in her basket, because it's clear that's the desired response. Maybe I'd just say they were dolls, and therefore don't know anything, nor can they move marbles by themselves, if I felt like annoying the person giving me the test. :D

I don't think I've ever had a problem understanding different people's perspectives, however I do have my blind spots. Personally, I'm not that great at reading tone or facial expressions, but I can understand why someone is feeling the way they are, because I can understand their perspective, as well as sometimes being able to feel their emotion.

If I can't tell what someone's facial expression is saying, then I usually guess that they are confused. This can annoy people, and I've been called a psychopath before for getting it wrong. I'm not a psychopath though, I actually feel a lot of empathy for others. Despite not always picking up on sarcasm, there are times where I use it myself and sometimes I do pick up on it.

There was a time where I studied body language in my free time, so I've actually got pretty good at understanding it now. However, there is such a thing as over-analysing it, sometimes people do slight actions that are normally aggressive, simply unintentionally, so the body language has to make some sort of sense in the situation, otherwise it's probably unintentional.

However, I don't have a monotone voice, it's actually fairly expressive, except for enthusiasm- I don't tend to sound enthusiastic even when I am. Sometimes I pick up on body language without thinking about it, usually I'll feel an emotion, and be unsure as to why I'm feeling that way, and then I'll realise someone in the room feels that way and I'm just picking up on that.


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