what are some things you CANNOT do because of your ASD?

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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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21 Nov 2017, 12:45 am

karathrace wrote:
^^^Thank you for writing this. It does help just to know that someone else understands, and I can tell that you understand by what you've said here.

The T.S. Eliot quote in particular I agree with, it has certainly been my experience that most people (despite whatever they may claim) don't really want that much truth in their lives. I have always felt compelled to confront reality because it feels unavoidable to me, which is why other people make so little sense to me in their seeking to avoid it. The few times when I was younger and I tried to run from reality it always seemed to find a way to put itself in my face, to make itself undeniable. Does that not happen to NT people, or is it that they respond differently to it (like by digging in deeper to self-delusion)?

I understand that I'm wired differently, etc., but understanding autism and how I am different doesn't seem to help me understand how others avoid reality so effectively because it seems to me to be impossible to do, yet they do.

Does that make any sense?


More than you can imagine. I too have wondered why reality seems to pursue me so relentlessly and mercilessly, while I watch others dance away from it, laughing.

I'm sorry, karathrace, for throwing quotes at you, but they're coming to mind and they seem apt. Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."

So, people can twist themselves into pretzels in order to avoid seeing what they don't want to see, but reality is unmoved, and it abides. It will still be waiting there for them when they can no longer hold the pose. And note: he describes suffering (by which he means facing reality) as legitimate. Which is exactly what you're saying, too.
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--- either my cable provider or this web site's host system seem to become pumpkins at midnight. Whenever I'm on through that time, things crash; it's taken me three tries (and a browser switch) to get this posted. At this point my eyes are starting to cross, so I'll be checking out; but I hope this helps. Don't doubt yourself or sell yourself short; you're seeing what's there.


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xatrix26
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21 Nov 2017, 4:18 am

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
More than you can imagine. I too have wondered why reality seems to pursue me so relentlessly and mercilessly, while I watch others dance away from it, laughing.

I'm sorry, karathrace, for throwing quotes at you, but they're coming to mind and they seem apt. Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."

So, people can twist themselves into pretzels in order to avoid seeing what they don't want to see, but reality is unmoved, and it abides. It will still be waiting there for them when they can no longer hold the pose. And note: he describes suffering (by which he means facing reality) as legitimate. Which is exactly what you're saying.


I agree with you, Esmerelda, that reality does pursue me relentlessly as well, truth and reality are intertwined very much so. When it comes to determining what NTs are really trying to say then that has always eluded me so it has always become my obsession to uncover the truth. Because NTs never say what they really mean and it is utterly and completely frustrating, unnerving and can cause me to become unglued altogether. Whether it be from NTs or something you might read on the news etc etc.

But for myself I appear to have a dubious relationship with truth and reality. As a journalist for 3 years I pursued it relentlessly but my special interest is computer games of which I hope to forget reality all together, and truth, and simply lose myself in a fantasy world.

I suppose I'm a typical Autistic, all in or all out. The switch is on or the switch is off and I go big or I go home. *sigh*


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HighLlama
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21 Nov 2017, 5:53 am

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."


Is that from the Answer to Job? I got into Jung very much in college, and find it interesting that many others here have found him at different points in their lives. Interesting, for people who are supposedly just literalistic and concrete. He and some of his followers have certainly been a help to me in trying to see myself as myself, and not as a poor distortion of normalcy.



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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21 Nov 2017, 10:59 am

xatrix26 wrote:
Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
More than you can imagine. I too have wondered why reality seems to pursue me so relentlessly and mercilessly, while I watch others dance away from it, laughing.

I'm sorry, karathrace, for throwing quotes at you, but they're coming to mind and they seem apt. Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."

So, people can twist themselves into pretzels in order to avoid seeing what they don't want to see, but reality is unmoved, and it abides. It will still be waiting there for them when they can no longer hold the pose. And note: he describes suffering (by which he means facing reality) as legitimate. Which is exactly what you're saying.


I agree with you, Esmerelda, that reality does pursue me relentlessly as well, truth and reality are intertwined very much so. When it comes to determining what NTs are really trying to say then that has always eluded me so it has always become my obsession to uncover the truth. Because NTs never say what they really mean and it is utterly and completely frustrating, unnerving and can cause me to become unglued altogether. Whether it be from NTs or something you might read on the news etc etc.

But for myself I appear to have a dubious relationship with truth and reality. As a journalist for 3 years I pursued it relentlessly but my special interest is computer games of which I hope to forget reality all together, and truth, and simply lose myself in a fantasy world.

I suppose I'm a typical Autistic, all in or all out. The switch is on or the switch is off and I go big or I go home. *sigh*
Hi Xatrix - same here with that on/off thing. I get stuck on the Earnest setting. It's a real treat when I can find my playfulness and enjoy it in safety (thank god for the play and sharing threads here, and the people on them!)

You're right about NT communication. When I can detach, I can tell myself that NTs don't say what they mean primarily because they don't know, themselves. True, and makes it easier to take blame out of it (when appropriate). To some extent isn't it true of all of us? I see folks here dealing with alexithymia, various agnosias, sensory processing issues, low empathy, hyperempathy, mood disorders, somatic issues - that has been mindblowing and very humbling. We've all got something standing in the way.

So you like gaming - why not? When this universe hurts, why not vacation in another one, where the rules are more explicit and accessible, and others don't seem to move the goalposts when our backs are turned? :) Just make sure you can come back from Pandora.


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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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21 Nov 2017, 11:33 am

HighLlama wrote:
Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."


Is that from the Answer to Job? I got into Jung very much in college, and find it interesting that many others here have found him at different points in their lives. Interesting, for people who are supposedly just literalistic and concrete. He and some of his followers have certainly been a help to me in trying to see myself as myself, and not as a poor distortion of normalcy.


Good almost-afternoon :-) I stumbled across Jung when I was overseas and had both time to read, and people to talk with in realspace about it :-). (How lucky I was and how little I knew it!)

This quote is actually from Psychology and Religion (Had to look that up. I'd forgotten!). I too find Jung comforting. His understanding of the nature of consciousness, of thought, of human mental/spiritual growth, seems to be spot on, and really helped me at a crucial time. He's wonderfully ecumenical, and the only author I've found who really gets to the core of Christian theodicy (your ref., Answer to Job).

When I was rummaging around on the Net (discovering that original sources are being shoved behind paywalls, ugh) I found this article by George K. Simon, Ph.D., whom I've talked up elsewhere :oops: a lot :oops: . He provided the attribution for the quote! If you don't already know his work, he has helped some ASD folks and he's very much a seeker after truth. I hope you'll find it (a) worth a read and (b) comforting, uplifting, your adjective of choice. [Mandala by Gil at aetherforce.com]

Image


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"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


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21 Nov 2017, 11:36 am

I cannot form meaningful bonds with anyone.


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21 Nov 2017, 2:33 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I can't seem to be able to treat the people I meet differently based on their perceived social status and/or class, as seems to be expected of everyone by NT people. That ability to notice where someone is on the status scale compared to myself and either defer to them or make them feel inferior is something I just don't have. I've noticed that with people who expect to be deferred to (usually because they have more money than me and most other people) my inability to do that is a BIG problem.

In the past I have gotten very hostile reactions from people for treating them as an equal to myself and as I treat everyone else, which I find baffling.


I also lack this ability, and I'm glad. I constantly see NTs deferring and sucking up to people who definitely don't deserve it, and I'm always disgusted.


I would be glad too if it didn't cause so much friction with other people. I wouldn't want to be a brown-noser anyway, but it sucks that other people can't seem to do without it and hold it against me that I can't play those games.


I think we're in agreement all that we Aspies do not do deference. Most NT's seem to have trouble distinguishing between what people say they do and what THEY ACTUALLY DO. So, nobody who I do not like is going to get deferred to, no matter what rank or status they have or think they have.



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21 Nov 2017, 4:56 pm

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
HighLlama wrote:
Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
Carl Jung had a remarkable perspective on human awareness, and I think he might have the closest thing to an answer on this: "Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering."


Is that from the Answer to Job? I got into Jung very much in college, and find it interesting that many others here have found him at different points in their lives. Interesting, for people who are supposedly just literalistic and concrete. He and some of his followers have certainly been a help to me in trying to see myself as myself, and not as a poor distortion of normalcy.


Good almost-afternoon :-) I stumbled across Jung when I was overseas and had both time to read, and people to talk with in realspace about it :-). (How lucky I was and how little I knew it!)

This quote is actually from Psychology and Religion (Had to look that up. I'd forgotten!). I too find Jung comforting. His understanding of the nature of consciousness, of thought, of human mental/spiritual growth, seems to be spot on, and really helped me at a crucial time. He's wonderfully ecumenical, and the only author I've found who really gets to the core of Christian theodicy (your ref., Answer to Job).

When I was rummaging around on the Net (discovering that original sources are being shoved behind paywalls, ugh) I found this article by George K. Simon, Ph.D., whom I've talked up elsewhere :oops: a lot :oops: . He provided the attribution for the quote! If you don't already know his work, he has helped some ASD folks and he's very much a seeker after truth. I hope you'll find it (a) worth a read and (b) comforting, uplifting, your adjective of choice. [Mandala by Gil at aetherforce.com]

Image


Thank you! I will check that out this evening.



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21 Nov 2017, 5:29 pm

What immediately comes to mind is the inability to observe and copy social skills myself and live on my own without assistance..


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