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emmasma
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17 Nov 2017, 7:55 am

I heard this on Aspicast recently and it seemed to put into words something that I have known. The host said that he visited a foreign country and for a while was able to relate and socialize without as many of his issued getting in the way. It seems like being unfamiliar with the culture gives you a pass on social cues and cultural norms and stuff for a while. People are also nicer and interested to know about you. Your differences are expected and not seen as strange and awkward. Maybe it just takes longer for people to pick up on the awkwardness? These are mostly my theories on it, the thought was his though. Do any other aspies find it easier to function in a foreign culture?



Shakti
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17 Nov 2017, 9:35 am

I definitely found this, I'm American but have lived in Holland for 7 years. At first, there definitely was the honeymoon period. Unfortunately not being familiar with Dutch norms when I met my ex meant I wasn't able to suss out properly that he was too normal, when dating in the US I would try to avoid too normal. That said, socializing is still, for the most part, easier than it would be at home. Being involved in the yoga scene here has been great for my social life, most of the people I meet through it, wherever they are from, are almost always highly sensitive if not on the spectrum themselves.

I can speak Dutch, maybe being on the spectrum helped me with learning it quicker than most foreigners do! I have to admit, it's kind of handy if I mentally check out during a conversation, to say I'm so tired my Dutch is going out the window.

But in group conversations, when you're a native English speaker but trying to have a conversation in Dutch, I'm fine one on one but get overstimulated in groups way quicker than I would be speaking English. But oh well, if I get overstimulated in a conversation I can just blame it on not being a native speaker.


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elbowgrease
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17 Nov 2017, 10:58 am

My only experience outside of the US is India. I wouldn't say it was really any easier to socialize, but overall it was positive. People were much friendlier there, far more open and seemed much more likely to initiate conversation than people in this country. So that part was easier. I didn't really have to try to start conversations, so half the battle was already over. That didn't really make it any easier, though. And the intensity of it was pretty overwhelming sometimes. There are SO MANY people, and the concept of personal space was a lot different. I felt like my relative asceticism was more readily accepted there, even appreciated. I had a lot of good experiences involving other people, a couple that really stood out. Some firsts for me.
I didn't know how to smile before I went there. I got some of my personal space barriers knocked down in a way that was positive during holi festival.
But I also left because, like here, I couldn't connect with anyone. Couldn't find a friend. Was really lonely and feeling trapped among people.



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17 Nov 2017, 11:13 am

emmasma wrote:
It seems like being unfamiliar with the culture gives you a pass on social cues and cultural norms and stuff for a while. People are also nicer and interested to know about you. Your differences are expected and not seen as strange and awkward.


Exactly. I haven't been abroad much or interracted with people from other cultures that much either, but I know this to be true in my case. If I do something people consider to be weird, they write it off as a cultural difference and if they do something weird then I can think of it as a cultural difference, too. This also works on some level when talking with people from different cultures in the internet, too.



Keladry
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17 Nov 2017, 10:41 pm

I had very similar experiences when I lived in Germany (I'm American). People have a much higher tolerance for your differences, and I felt like I fit in there, which I never had before. It's a double-edge sword though - the more proficient I became in German, the less tolerance people had :(

Another plus being in the new culture is that people would actively explain what to say/do in specific social situations :D win-win for an aspie, especially for an at-that-time undiagnosed and completely oblivious one!



underwater
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18 Nov 2017, 2:19 am

Keladry wrote:
I had very similar experiences when I lived in Germany (I'm American). People have a much higher tolerance for your differences, and I felt like I fit in there, which I never had before. It's a double-edge sword though - the more proficient I became in German, the less tolerance people had :(

Another plus being in the new culture is that people would actively explain what to say/do in specific social situations :D win-win for an aspie, especially for an at-that-time undiagnosed and completely oblivious one!


I've had much the same experience, living in another country. The trouble is, as you say, that once you know the language well - and I pick up languages extremely easily - people expect you to understand stuff. And then you have to understand social interaction in a foreign culture and do it in a foreign language. The fact that you use idiomatic expressions correctly and understand some more complex social concepts native to that country is taken to mean that you understand everything.

This is really bugging me. I really messed up recently. Am very tired of being a foreigner. Only want to be a native, alone, in my own country. Every time I hear wolves howling at night, I pretend I live in the wilderness :lol:


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Shakti
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18 Nov 2017, 2:41 am

I keep feeling like my ideal environment would be one where almost everyone is from somewhere else, and from a variety of different places. Usually the less someone is "normal", the more likely they are to venture away from wherever they grew up. So a community full of people like this would be amazing. If I do win the custody battle I'm currently in and get the right to move with my son wherever we want to, I'm thinking a community on the beach in Spain or Greece, with lots of people from all over the world, would be perfect for us.

With learning the language, maybe it's different with languages like French where you're expected to know the language in order to fit in, with Dutch the standard that most foreigners get to is pretty low. So I've found most Dutch people don't expect me to know idiomatic expressions to their level, especially as English is so commonly spoken here that Dutch people (at least in 1-on-1 conversations) are pretty good at simplifying their Dutch so I can understand it based on their knowledge of English.


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hale_bopp
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18 Nov 2017, 4:55 am

It depends on the culture. Some cultures I really struggle with, mainly eastern europeans.

Sometimes a person of another culture is also a minority, so maybe it’s easier to gravitate to other minorities?



Keladry
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18 Nov 2017, 3:40 pm

underwater wrote:
Keladry wrote:
I had very similar experiences when I lived in Germany (I'm American). People have a much higher tolerance for your differences, and I felt like I fit in there, which I never had before. It's a double-edge sword though - the more proficient I became in German, the less tolerance people had :(

Another plus being in the new culture is that people would actively explain what to say/do in specific social situations :D win-win for an aspie, especially for an at-that-time undiagnosed and completely oblivious one!


I've had much the same experience, living in another country. The trouble is, as you say, that once you know the language well - and I pick up languages extremely easily - people expect you to understand stuff. And then you have to understand social interaction in a foreign culture and do it in a foreign language. The fact that you use idiomatic expressions correctly and understand some more complex social concepts native to that country is taken to mean that you understand everything.

This is really bugging me. I really messed up recently. Am very tired of being a foreigner. Only want to be a native, alone, in my own country. Every time I hear wolves howling at night, I pretend I live in the wilderness :lol:


Yep. This is exactly what happened to me. At that time I didn't know I had aspergers so I just thought it was a cultural difference. Now I know it's even more than just that. I'm sorry you had this experience recently.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Nov 2017, 5:51 pm

emmasma wrote:
I heard this on Aspicast recently and it seemed to put into words something that I have known. The host said that he visited a foreign country and for a while was able to relate and socialize without as many of his issued getting in the way. It seems like being unfamiliar with the culture gives you a pass on social cues and cultural norms and stuff for a while. People are also nicer and interested to know about you. Your differences are expected and not seen as strange and awkward. Maybe it just takes longer for people to pick up on the awkwardness? These are mostly my theories on it, the thought was his though. Do any other aspies find it easier to function in a foreign culture?


I don't know about travelling, because I haven't really don't much of any travelling, but I know growing up I found it easier to make friends with immigrant kids than other children who were born in Canada. Any time there was a kid in my class from somewhere else, they almost seemed drawn to me. I don't remember making a specific effort to be friends with them over other kids, they just seemed to naturally gravitate towards me. And though they were from somewhere with a different language and culture they were often easier to get along with than my other classmates. I never really understood why or thought about it that much, but as an adult looking back and knowing now about autism I can see why it was easier for me to get along with immigrant children.



k.wolf
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19 Nov 2017, 11:06 am

I'm actually having the opposite experience...
I'm an international student at an university, and honestly I'm having a terrible time socializing. I've been living here for 2.5 months now and I don't know anyone - I literally have no acquaintances and I have interacted more with professors and some lady at the bank than with any other student. Back in my country I was used to people approaching me, and starting a conversation with me - here this hasn't happened yet; everyone already seems to have established their own little group and there's no reason to bother talking with some foreigner. It doesn't help that, because I am a foreginer and last on their priority list, I was put into classes that weren't full yet so throughout the week I watch many lectures with different people from courses different from mine. I've never felt so isolated and defective in my life. Maybe this situation wouldn't have happened to someone who actually knew how to initiate conversations and stuff, I guess my degree of ineptitude is too high and it's my fault.



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19 Nov 2017, 12:38 pm

k.wolf wrote:
I'm actually having the opposite experience...
I'm an international student at an university, and honestly I'm having a terrible time socializing. I've been living here for 2.5 months now and I don't know anyone - I literally have no acquaintances and I have interacted more with professors and some lady at the bank than with any other student. Back in my country I was used to people approaching me, and starting a conversation with me - here this hasn't happened yet; everyone already seems to have established their own little group and there's no reason to bother talking with some foreigner. It doesn't help that, because I am a foreginer and last on their priority list, I was put into classes that weren't full yet so throughout the week I watch many lectures with different people from courses different from mine. I've never felt so isolated and defective in my life. Maybe this situation wouldn't have happened to someone who actually knew how to initiate conversations and stuff, I guess my degree of ineptitude is too high and it's my fault.


K.wolf, which country are you studying in? I teach ESL to international students in the US, and many of them experience the exact same thing as you, even those who aren't on the spectrum. If you share with us the country, we might be able to help you brainstorm some ways to make more connections without you having to go outside of your comfort zone.



k.wolf
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19 Nov 2017, 4:08 pm

Keladry wrote:
K.wolf, which country are you studying in? I teach ESL to international students in the US, and many of them experience the exact same thing as you, even those who aren't on the spectrum. If you share with us the country, we might be able to help you brainstorm some ways to make more connections without you having to go outside of your comfort zone.

I'm studying in Portugal and I'm originally from Brazil. I've always wanted to go to the US or Canada but this is the only country my parents were financially able to send me off to, as I don't come from a rich family.
Because the people here speak the same native language as I do, at first it may seem like I wouldn't struggle with that aspect but the accent and writing are very different and I probably would be having much less difficulty with the language if I was located in an english-speaking country, honestly.



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19 Nov 2017, 11:09 pm

k.wolf wrote:
Keladry wrote:
K.wolf, which country are you studying in? I teach ESL to international students in the US, and many of them experience the exact same thing as you, even those who aren't on the spectrum. If you share with us the country, we might be able to help you brainstorm some ways to make more connections without you having to go outside of your comfort zone.

I'm studying in Portugal and I'm originally from Brazil. I've always wanted to go to the US or Canada but this is the only country my parents were financially able to send me off to, as I don't come from a rich family.
Because the people here speak the same native language as I do, at first it may seem like I wouldn't struggle with that aspect but the accent and writing are very different and I probably would be having much less difficulty with the language if I was located in an english-speaking country, honestly.


If your in Lisbon go to Baixa and Rossio or take this walking tour http://lisboaautentica.com/en/passeio/lisbon-with-fernando-pessoa


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20 Nov 2017, 9:37 am

Yes and no. If they have a good handle of the English language or are from a predominantly English speaking country, I can easily converse with them about things I can't with most of the people in the Bible Belt. If they don't, it's a headache because I already have enough struggles talking to people in general.



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20 Nov 2017, 10:00 am

Being a foreigner puts me on something resembling an equal footing with NTs because <I>everyone</I> feels awkward and weird as a foreigner, and local people are more forgiving because they assume all foreigners are a bit weird. I've lived away from my home country for 16 years, and I doubt I'll ever go back.


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