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billegge
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24 Nov 2017, 2:47 am

Clakker wrote:
I don’t leave the house unless I absolutely have to and, thus, have more control over my life. When I do leave I try to be as efficient as possible, combining work with shopping and appointments. I invite family to my house, which reduces my discomfort level, because I’m in familiar surroundings and have control over the situation. I have less meltdowns now; however, my life isn’t really conducive to finding a girlfriend. Well, as the Germans say ‘a sparrow in the hand is better than a dove on the roof’ (a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush) or ‘in misery the devil eats flies’ (beggars can’t be choosers). :wink:


Can you give me a specific case, not general, of having a meltdown, and a separate specific case of not having a meltdown?

I am thinking something interesting that actually contradicts your method of controlling it but I am not sure without more data.



billegge
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24 Nov 2017, 2:52 am

Shakti wrote:
Maybe lack of conditions that would cause meltdowns?


Yes, maybe.



xatrix26
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24 Nov 2017, 5:07 am

billegge wrote:
xatrix26

Your description is interesting, it sounds a lot like having to go to the bathroom and holding it all day. The closer you get to the bathroom (your home) the harder it is to contain.

Another parallel is crying. When crying, by anyone such as an NT, it is intense but then there is a point where you no longer cry and don't feel like crying despite nothing changing. Your meltdown seems to follow the same pattern as crying.

Curious, if you felt a meltdown building up - is it possible to have a meltdown "on-demand"? Can you decide to have a meltdown, then have one? I am really curious what would happen if you chose to have a meltdown then tried to.


Well yes your bathroom analogy seems accurate and quite appropriate to this case. I would have to agree with you there.

And the short answer is - the meltdown times choose me, I don't choose the meltdowns. My own subconscious seems to track the size of the "inflated balloon of my overall Autistic frustration and overstimulation with life" and when that balloon bursts then the meltdown proceeds. I have High Functioning Autism - also known as Asperger's Syndrome and with my enhanced memory I'm subconsciously tracking everything that frustrates me and when it becomes too much then once again the meltdown proceeds.

The meltdowns never seem to occur on demand - my subconscious seems to control that - but regular crying happens often, every few days, and I cry a lot for a guy in his early forties. Like most Autistics we're all quite emotional and the intensity can be quite extreme. I found that I still cry about things that happened years ago and with an enhanced memory comes the curse of never being able to forget traumatic events.


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Clakker
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24 Nov 2017, 7:38 am

billegge wrote:
Can you give me a specific case, not general, of having a meltdown, and a separate specific case of not having a meltdown?

I am thinking something interesting that actually contradicts your method of controlling it but I am not sure without more data.

Listen I’ve read some your posts (hint: Reizflut, German idioms). I agree you’re different (e.g. your video idea :oops:). I wasn’t answering your questions because as xatrix26 pointed out the meltdowns are due to overstimulation and, later, xatrix26 wrote that the meltdowns are also involuntary. And I think your bathroom analogy is about the....but xatrix26 thought otherwise. If you’ve met one person with autism you’ve met one person with autism.
As for contradicting (oh no, trigger :P ) my “method of controlling” it (I’m thinking you mean the meltdowns :lol:) I never said I’m controlling the meltdowns instead I’m controlling the overstimulation of daily living. I choose to engage the world in ways to reduce the stimulation. I’m careful to allow for long periods of downtime between social events, family visits, appointments, and work.
Here was a normal day for me in the past: public transportation, coffee shop, morning chats, work, lunch chats, work, public transportation, grocery shopping, socializing, girlfriend time, a movie or the video store. I normal day is exhausting for me. I haven’t even mentioned the fluorescent lights and the daily street noises. This was before smart phones, email, and your boss calling you on Saturday. The cumulative effects of daily living leads to meltdowns. Most people don’t have a problem doing all these things on a daily basis, I did and do.
Here’s a better analogy
Imagine you have only two spoons of energy to deal with everything that daily life entails but you need, at least, three spoons of energy everyday. Everybody you know seems just fine with their allotment but not you. So, you fake it and eventually you’re days behind everybody else. You’ve been borrowing heavily from future days and other internal resources just to keep up appearances. You’re on edge all the time but still fake it. Some people notice you say you’re fine but you’re not fine. The meltdowns are, as I said, preprogrammed.
My rules:
Stay within the energy allotment
Buildup reserves by banking days
Don’t use valuable resources to keep up appearances


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StampySquiddyFan
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24 Nov 2017, 2:11 pm

billegge wrote:
StampySquiddyFan wrote:
A time I had a meltdown: I had a meltdown on this day that was a day where we basically spent the day doing fun things. Unfortunately, one of the “fun activities” included attending a school wide pep rally. I covered my ears almost the whole time, and the experience was horrible.


What was going through your mind while you were covering your ears?


I was basically just not really thinking much at all. I had a strong desire to get out of there. I kind of wanted someone to notice so they could get me out of there. That's all I really remember.


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Angnix
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24 Nov 2017, 7:06 pm

Most recent meltdown: husband is having same stomach pain again that he has every once in awhile that goes undiagnosed all the time. I eventually have enough and just randomly wake up and cry and accuse him of faking the whole thing. He eventually had to go to the hospital. But I get real emotionally drained by this and eventually there is no turning back. Many docs and therapists have tried to say I can stop these attacks by distraction but it never works. It gets to the point where I can distract myself for awhile by looking at my bird apps but that doesn't work when I'm on the verge of breaking down.

I've likened a meltdown to a "negative orgasm" the analogy being that once it starts it reaches a point of no return. A couple of times when I knew I couldn't scream like one time around some kids I just"imploded" aka "shutdown" where I literally went mute.


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LostGirI
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24 Nov 2017, 9:59 pm

It sounds silly but I'm not 100% what you would say constitutes a meltdown so I'll just go with one thing that sticks in my mind and that I knew wasn't right.

So what caused it? A combination of lack of sleep, stress, frustration and obsessing over my special interests. It was building up over weeks. Obsessing about work rotas and how/when I was going to stick to my routines and special interests which are kind of one in the same thing. That's what caused my stress and lack of sleep. Then on my days off I sat on my bed with a notepad and paper working out various shift patterns that might allow me to stick
To my routines and maintain my interests so that I could somehow show it to my boss and plead with her to let me follow that shift pattern. I knew she was working on an eight week Rota for me and it was causing me great anxiety.

Anyway, one min it was like 10:00. Next thing I knew it was 19:30 and I was stillsat on my bed with this notepad and pen and lord knows how many screwed up pieces of paper all over the bedroom floor. I hadn't realised I wasted my only
Day off obsessing like this. And I was frustrated I still couldn't fit it all in and get it to work. My next day off the same thing happened. It got to 15:00 on the second or third day off of me doing this when I realised I'd exhausted all possibilities and connotations of shift patterns etc and I literally just didn't know what to do. I started crying. I didn't know why but I couldn't stop. I wanted to pull all my hair out. I didn't but the feeling was so strong and I just wanted to physically smash my head into the wall. I didn't, I ran myself a bath and just sat in it rocking and crying and just couldn't stop. I knew something was wrong just the fact routine and work rotas was losing me so much sleep, forcing me to sit in my room planning and scheming on my days off and generally causing me so much distress. So my "meltdown" was the final straw. I was really worried for myself and that I might hurt myself or do something stupid so I rang the gp and they saw me that afternoon. This was a few years ago before I knew I had ASD. She said she thought I was suffering from anxiety and OCD. Possibly a little depression too but she wasn't sure about that. So that was my meltdown.

I've prob had others but not as bad as that. I will either have an emotional outburst. That's usually due to there being too much noise and feeling trapped etc. Or I will randomly cry and burst into tears and then that's me done for the day. I just can't stop. Sometimes there's a reason. Others there isn't. I can't explain but it's like a panicky feeling or something takes over me and I literally just don't know what to do. I can't settle or rest or concentrate on anything big or small. All I can do is cry. Or I'll sleep to try and stop/calm myself. I don't know really.


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fruitloop42
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24 Nov 2017, 10:06 pm

A time I had a meltdown: I had just run a race and after the race everyone funneled into this kind of 'holding pen' where there were drinks and food etc. I was trying to find my way out, it was very crowded and for some reason I ended up going round and round in circles. Something flipped and I ended up quite violently bashing my way through the crowd, sobbing very loudly until I was pretty much pushed out and evicted by people who didn't like having this crazy person flailing around and smacking into people. Thank goodness nobody I knew saw me, and I never had to tell anyone or explain myself. It's worse when people I know see me and I have to explain things, because I never really can.

A time I didn't have a meltdown: Also when I had just run a race. I was at the end and this time there was no crowd. I just sat on the ground and I'm not sure what I was doing, but at some point a guy walked up to me and said "are you ok? You're starting to scare me." Not sure what I was doing - maybe rocking and trying not to cry? But evidently it looked weird. I think the fact there was no crowd and I could sit down by myself helped me to calm down rather than spill over. Finishing races is quite overwhelming sometimes, for some reason.

Just an example where the same situation either caused or didn't cause a meltdown. They definitely get worse when other situations in my life are causing stress. When there's something work-wise that's stressful, when there's a big transition ahead and the future is uncertain. I had a very traumatic relationship and then I was having meltdowns all the time - very little was needed to push me over the edge. Now life is calmer I don't have them so much.

Also - after a meltdown I don't always have a clear recollection of what I was doing. It's kind of like a hazy, patchy memory of a dream.



MrsPeel
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24 Nov 2017, 11:32 pm

I'm kind of borderline on the spectrum, sitting on the boundary fence you might say, and not sure whether I have real meltdowns, as such. But I do find I can go from feeling OK to extremely upset or frustrated in an instant.

At work it tends to be frustration with things not going to plan, like computer issues or being let down by other people, and I feel like I need to scream and I have to go out of the office and walk around the block a few times to calm down.

At home it's mainly when my family are demanding things of me, and especially if they're conflicting demands and all hitting me at once. I get overwhelmed and snap or shout at them and then I have to go out and walk for about an hour.

At least it's keeping me fit :)



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 8:57 pm

Clakker wrote:
billegge wrote:
Can you give me a specific case, not general, of having a meltdown, and a separate specific case of not having a meltdown?

I am thinking something interesting that actually contradicts your method of controlling it but I am not sure without more data.

Listen I’ve read some your posts (hint: Reizflut, German idioms). I agree you’re different (e.g. your video idea :oops:). I wasn’t answering your questions because as xatrix26 pointed out the meltdowns are due to overstimulation and, later, xatrix26 wrote that the meltdowns are also involuntary. And I think your bathroom analogy is about the....but xatrix26 thought otherwise. If you’ve met one person with autism you’ve met one person with autism.
As for contradicting (oh no, trigger :P ) my “method of controlling” it (I’m thinking you mean the meltdowns :lol:) I never said I’m controlling the meltdowns instead I’m controlling the overstimulation of daily living. I choose to engage the world in ways to reduce the stimulation. I’m careful to allow for long periods of downtime between social events, family visits, appointments, and work.
Here was a normal day for me in the past: public transportation, coffee shop, morning chats, work, lunch chats, work, public transportation, grocery shopping, socializing, girlfriend time, a movie or the video store. I normal day is exhausting for me. I haven’t even mentioned the fluorescent lights and the daily street noises. This was before smart phones, email, and your boss calling you on Saturday. The cumulative effects of daily living leads to meltdowns. Most people don’t have a problem doing all these things on a daily basis, I did and do.
Here’s a better analogy
Imagine you have only two spoons of energy to deal with everything that daily life entails but you need, at least, three spoons of energy everyday. Everybody you know seems just fine with their allotment but not you. So, you fake it and eventually you’re days behind everybody else. You’ve been borrowing heavily from future days and other internal resources just to keep up appearances. You’re on edge all the time but still fake it. Some people notice you say you’re fine but you’re not fine. The meltdowns are, as I said, preprogrammed.
My rules:
Stay within the energy allotment
Buildup reserves by banking days
Don’t use valuable resources to keep up appearances


I don't think you are understanding me, I am not looking for someone to tell me what a meltdown is in theoretical terms or explain what it is. What I want to do is figure it out myself. The only way to figure out something is to start at the start, the raw experiences. From those experiences I can derive causes or cross relate with other things.

Think of those in history that had very different ideas than the mainstream. Its only them that changed the world. I think I am this kind of person. Its important to me to figure out things first hand.

{your video idea :oops:)}
btw - I take Adderall, but had not been taking it for about a week while making all those posts of mine. Today I finally got my prescription and took Adderall. You should see a vast difference in my posts while I am taking Adderall. I should probably keep my mouth shut while not taking Adderall.
For example here are some posts I made while taking Adderall and the thinking is clear.
Scroll Down (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=356373&start=180)

Scroll to the bottom (viewtopic.php?t=356757)
You can see my previous posts in that thread and how different my last one is.



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 9:04 pm

Angnix wrote:
Most recent meltdown: husband is having same stomach pain again that he has every once in awhile that goes undiagnosed all the time. I eventually have enough and just randomly wake up and cry and accuse him of faking the whole thing. He eventually had to go to the hospital. But I get real emotionally drained by this and eventually there is no turning back. Many docs and therapists have tried to say I can stop these attacks by distraction but it never works. It gets to the point where I can distract myself for awhile by looking at my bird apps but that doesn't work when I'm on the verge of breaking down.

I've likened a meltdown to a "negative orgasm" the analogy being that once it starts it reaches a point of no return. A couple of times when I knew I couldn't scream like one time around some kids I just"imploded" aka "shutdown" where I literally went mute.


Thank you Angnix. Do you have an example of not having a meltdown. Possibly when there was an absence of any cause for a meltdown?



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 9:16 pm

LostGirI wrote:
It sounds silly but I'm not 100% what you would say constitutes a meltdown so I'll just go with one thing that sticks in my mind and that I knew wasn't right.

So what caused it? A combination of lack of sleep, stress, frustration and obsessing over my special interests. It was building up over weeks. Obsessing about work rotas and how/when I was going to stick to my routines and special interests which are kind of one in the same thing. That's what caused my stress and lack of sleep. Then on my days off I sat on my bed with a notepad and paper working out various shift patterns that might allow me to stick
To my routines and maintain my interests so that I could somehow show it to my boss and plead with her to let me follow that shift pattern. I knew she was working on an eight week Rota for me and it was causing me great anxiety.

Anyway, one min it was like 10:00. Next thing I knew it was 19:30 and I was stillsat on my bed with this notepad and pen and lord knows how many screwed up pieces of paper all over the bedroom floor. I hadn't realised I wasted my only
Day off obsessing like this. And I was frustrated I still couldn't fit it all in and get it to work. My next day off the same thing happened. It got to 15:00 on the second or third day off of me doing this when I realised I'd exhausted all possibilities and connotations of shift patterns etc and I literally just didn't know what to do. I started crying. I didn't know why but I couldn't stop. I wanted to pull all my hair out. I didn't but the feeling was so strong and I just wanted to physically smash my head into the wall. I didn't, I ran myself a bath and just sat in it rocking and crying and just couldn't stop. I knew something was wrong just the fact routine and work rotas was losing me so much sleep, forcing me to sit in my room planning and scheming on my days off and generally causing me so much distress. So my "meltdown" was the final straw. I was really worried for myself and that I might hurt myself or do something stupid so I rang the gp and they saw me that afternoon. This was a few years ago before I knew I had ASD. She said she thought I was suffering from anxiety and OCD. Possibly a little depression too but she wasn't sure about that. So that was my meltdown.

I've prob had others but not as bad as that. I will either have an emotional outburst. That's usually due to there being too much noise and feeling trapped etc. Or I will randomly cry and burst into tears and then that's me done for the day. I just can't stop. Sometimes there's a reason. Others there isn't. I can't explain but it's like a panicky feeling or something takes over me and I literally just don't know what to do. I can't settle or rest or concentrate on anything big or small. All I can do is cry. Or I'll sleep to try and stop/calm myself. I don't know really.


Thank you LostGirl. I can relate to that feeling of Panic.

Can you tell me about a time when "all is good"?



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 9:23 pm

fruitloop42 wrote:
A time I had a meltdown: I had just run a race and after the race everyone funneled into this kind of 'holding pen' where there were drinks and food etc. I was trying to find my way out, it was very crowded and for some reason I ended up going round and round in circles. Something flipped and I ended up quite violently bashing my way through the crowd, sobbing very loudly until I was pretty much pushed out and evicted by people who didn't like having this crazy person flailing around and smacking into people. Thank goodness nobody I knew saw me, and I never had to tell anyone or explain myself. It's worse when people I know see me and I have to explain things, because I never really can.

A time I didn't have a meltdown: Also when I had just run a race. I was at the end and this time there was no crowd. I just sat on the ground and I'm not sure what I was doing, but at some point a guy walked up to me and said "are you ok? You're starting to scare me." Not sure what I was doing - maybe rocking and trying not to cry? But evidently it looked weird. I think the fact there was no crowd and I could sit down by myself helped me to calm down rather than spill over. Finishing races is quite overwhelming sometimes, for some reason.

Just an example where the same situation either caused or didn't cause a meltdown. They definitely get worse when other situations in my life are causing stress. When there's something work-wise that's stressful, when there's a big transition ahead and the future is uncertain. I had a very traumatic relationship and then I was having meltdowns all the time - very little was needed to push me over the edge. Now life is calmer I don't have them so much.

Also - after a meltdown I don't always have a clear recollection of what I was doing. It's kind of like a hazy, patchy memory of a dream.


Thank you. You answered my question perfectly.

At some point I am going to summarize my observations in all the posts.



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 9:29 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
I'm kind of borderline on the spectrum, sitting on the boundary fence you might say, and not sure whether I have real meltdowns, as such. But I do find I can go from feeling OK to extremely upset or frustrated in an instant.

At work it tends to be frustration with things not going to plan, like computer issues or being let down by other people, and I feel like I need to scream and I have to go out of the office and walk around the block a few times to calm down.

At home it's mainly when my family are demanding things of me, and especially if they're conflicting demands and all hitting me at once. I get overwhelmed and snap or shout at them and then I have to go out and walk for about an hour.

At least it's keeping me fit :)


Thank you MrsPeel. I can relate to you about conflicting demands.

Can you tell me about a time when things are going well, happy (or peacfull), and your generally ok?



TheAP
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27 Nov 2017, 9:39 pm

A time when I had a meltdown: It's hard for me to describe a specific occurrence, since there are so many, and I can't remember exactly what symptoms I displayed with a particular one. But they're basically all the same. Someone, such as a family member, teacher or group leader, would make a comment that I find hurtful, such as a generalized comment directed at a group I'm part of. I would start yelling, crying, and hitting myself, or hurting myself in other ways. I would usually end up being taken from the room into a quiet place, where I would cry for a bit once I calmed down. I might be able to go through the day as normal once the crying subsided, but would often feel numb for the rest of the day, as well as headachey from the crying.

A time when I didn't have a meltdown: A little while ago, I got an assignment back with a low grade. I didn't yell or hurt myself, but simply cried for a while. I haven't been having meltdowns lately. I don't know if that's just because I'm not really in social situations anymore, or because I'm really improving my emotional regulation.

Feel free to ask anything else you want to know.



billegge
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27 Nov 2017, 11:39 pm

FYI - I posted a new thread with my initial observations and thoughts. I do not regard this as complete at all and may have errors, but I posted it to get feedback. I still need many more meltdown and non-meltdown cases, there are still too many holes.

Here is a link to the thread with my thoughts that you may comment on or just tell me I am flat out wrong.

viewtopic.php?t=357077