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Americans—Do you still support America?

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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 4:03 pm

TheAP wrote:
Not all Americans voted for Trump.

Really, what's the point in supporting or not supporting individual countries? Why can't people just say that they don't support Trump and his government?


What's the point in having countries, borders, nations etc if we're not to use those labels to define anything? :?

Again, get real.

Americans' representatives on the world stage are tarnishing their reputation BIGLY and that is the simple truth of the matter whether you accept it or not.


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TheAP
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10 Dec 2017, 4:08 pm

Countries exist to make it easier to govern people, not so that they can be generalized.



goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 4:23 pm

TheAP wrote:
Countries exist to make it easier to govern people, not so that they can be generalized.


:roll:

They exist for many reasons, including so that they can be generalized.

In general, Japan is a peaceful nation with a very polite society.
In general, I wouldn't trust ANY business proposition coming from Nigeria.
In general, America is flipping off the rest of the world by tearing up trade agreements & provoking war.

etc.

There's a REASON that COUNTRIES as a whole even have reputations.. because, they are, generalized & judged by every other human and every other nation.


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10 Dec 2017, 4:29 pm

What about races? Do you think that people should be allowed to generalize about races as well?



goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 4:30 pm

^ Let me guess, you're perfectly okay with accepting praise for America, in general, when it's being led by a well liked leader like Obama? Generalization of America as a world leader, innovator, economic & military powerhouse is a-okay when the general perception of it is positive... but as soon as it's being run by a reality tv show host circus side show of a human being that's destroying America's image, all of the sudden countries shouldn't be generalized.. am I right? :roll:


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goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 4:33 pm

TheAP wrote:
What about races? Do you think that people should be allowed to generalize about races as well?


A) We're talking about countries & nationalities, not races. Apples to oranges, completely incomparable.

B) Whether I think people should be allowed to generalize about races or not doesn't change the simple fact that most people do - and that's my entire point with "A)" - whether you think someone should generalize a country based on their elected officials actions on the world stage or not does not change the simple fact that most people do.


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10 Dec 2017, 4:41 pm

why are you so upset about this?


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10 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
^ Let me guess, you're perfectly okay with accepting praise for America, in general, when it's being led by a well liked leader like Obama? Generalization of America as a world leader, innovator, economic & military powerhouse is a-okay when the general perception of it is positive... but as soon as it's being run by a reality tv show host circus side show of a human being that's destroying America's image, all of the sudden countries shouldn't be generalized.. am I right? :roll:

I don't think making positive generalizations is quite the same thing, as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Quote:
A) We're talking about countries & nationalities, not races. Apples to oranges, completely incomparable.

It's not incomparable. They are both diverse groups of people.
Quote:
B) Whether I think people should be allowed to generalize about races or not doesn't change the simple fact that most people do - and that's my entire point with "A)" - whether you think someone should generalize a country based on their elected officials actions on the world stage or not does not change the simple fact that most people do.

I know people do. I'm just saying that in my opinion they shouldn't.



goldfish21
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10 Dec 2017, 4:57 pm

TheAP wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
^ Let me guess, you're perfectly okay with accepting praise for America, in general, when it's being led by a well liked leader like Obama? Generalization of America as a world leader, innovator, economic & military powerhouse is a-okay when the general perception of it is positive... but as soon as it's being run by a reality tv show host circus side show of a human being that's destroying America's image, all of the sudden countries shouldn't be generalized.. am I right? :roll:

I don't think making positive generalizations is quite the same thing, as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Quote:
A) We're talking about countries & nationalities, not races. Apples to oranges, completely incomparable.

It's not incomparable. They are both diverse groups of people.
Quote:
B) Whether I think people should be allowed to generalize about races or not doesn't change the simple fact that most people do - and that's my entire point with "A)" - whether you think someone should generalize a country based on their elected officials actions on the world stage or not does not change the simple fact that most people do.

I know people do. I'm just saying that in my opinion they shouldn't.


:lol: So like I said, you're perfectly ok with a double standard so long as it serves you.. it's fine when people like America's reputation for America to have one for people to like, but all of the sudden when America's reputation is negative then people should disregard national reputations entirely because they're "not fair," or "fake news." :lol:

It is possible to make the argument that both nationalities & races contain diverse groups of people, but they're still apples to oranges, in general. Regardless, people generalize both whether you think they ought to or not. That's my point.


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10 Dec 2017, 5:07 pm

I think it's pretty stupid to say you don't support your country because of the current President. The President is NOT the USA. America will be around long after Trump is gone. America has it's problems and it's bad history like every other country - you're not going to find a country without it's own warts. But step back and look how bad people have it in other areas of the world. The rights, freedoms and opportunity afforded to you if you were lucky enough to be born in America or any other 1st world country should not be taken for granted.

By all means, attack the President if you don't agree with him, but don't disrespect your country. You're very lucky to be born there. There are millions of people around the world who would kill to be in your shoes.



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10 Dec 2017, 5:36 pm

^ Uh, is it entirely lost on you that the POTUS represents the American people on the world stage and that not supporting him IS not supporting America & it's present policy directives?


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kraftiekortie
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10 Dec 2017, 5:55 pm

I support America. I don't support the present President. I love my country.

I've been to foreign countries. People tend to grudgingly admire America, while being irritated with it because they feel we "lord it" over everybody else, and that we are exceedingly arrogant in general.

I've yet to run into actual hatred for individual Americans. They wish we were less loud and more polite, though. Many people also want to learn English. English is becoming the "lingua franca" of the world.

I wish we weren't so Ameri-centric in many ways. We have to learn about the entire world, and cooperate with it.



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10 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I support America. I don't support the present President. I love my country.

I've been to foreign countries. People tend to grudgingly admire America, while being irritated with it because they feel we "lord it" over everybody else, and that we are exceedingly arrogant in general.

I've yet to run into actual hatred for individual Americans. They wish we were less loud and more polite, though. Many people also want to learn English. English is becoming the "lingua franca" of the world.

I wish we weren't so Ameri-centric in many ways. We have to learn about the entire world, and cooperate with it.



Not all people within the North American corridor have a notion of exceptionalism, just a small handful of persons.Yes, I agree we should have varied approach to things.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Dec 2017, 6:05 pm

Of course they don't---but on Internet forums, it does seem that way.

Trump doesn't help, either, to say the least.



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10 Dec 2017, 8:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
^ Uh, is it entirely lost on you that the POTUS represents the American people on the world stage and that not supporting him IS not supporting America & it's present policy directives?


Is it entirely lost on you that the Presidency is a very brief, very temporary position? Meaning that those policy directives are also very brief and very temporary?

There's a big difference between not supporting the president and his policies and not supporting your country. There is much more to a country than the president, as I illustrated in my first post.

People can sit around and pout like infants about how they hate America now, that's fine. I just think it's silly.



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11 Dec 2017, 12:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
Empathy wrote:
what I can eyewitness from the documents, and perhaps slavery was the norm back then but I still feel ashamed of this chapter in history. The film, 12 Years a Slave echoes the 13 colonies in which we live and breathe.


Everybody in the south was treating them badly, its just historically swept under the carpet. If you feel guilty then how come every one else in the south still swells with pride at the sight of the dixie flag ?


It could be because we (the British), abolished slavery and didn't revolutionise it into another chapter in history.
I support the plight of that long long ancestor, she wasn't naïve nor wanted to remain trapped in poverty.
Status and money isn't everything in life, its surviving the outcome out of a good deed that's been done and attributed to make living a decent way of life possible. My generation don't see it but we have the gift of foresight, and the bittersweet irony of a nostalgic hell raising past. We forage it with mixed results and mixed caution.