29 Dec 2017, 10:22 pm
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Aspie1, I don't think your experience is the norm, though I could be wrong. I never got in trouble in school or from my parents for getting things wrong on my homework. Of course, I took my grades more seriously than they did b/c I think (but don't know b/c he, himself, never told me) that my dad had aspie like executive functioning issues that affected his grades.
Well, my parents treated my grades as the topmost priority, far above my mental health. Which caused me to make plan to run away from home every time a bad report card came. And I had nothing and no one to turn to. I had no friends. I also knew I couldn't talk to my teachers about it: they gave me those grades, and were therefore "the enemy" and shouldn't be trusted. And until 4th grade, I even believed that my elementary teacher was colluding with my parents: by giving me low grades on purpose, to give them extra opportunities to punish me. Or at least give me usual "I'm very disappointed in you!" spiel.Another thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: ALCOHOL. If something goes wrong in a teacher's day at school, he/she can drink some vodka after getting home, and all is well again. But kids have no such source of comfort; just their own mind! So when the OP's son's teacher has too many essays to grade, she can pound some shots after she's done. But when the OP's son has too much homework, he has nothing to relax himself with!
Just the dumb, ineffective "natural relaxation" crap.As you can tell, I started (ab)using alcohol pretty early. I was 12 when I first started sneaking whiskey to relax myself.
29 Dec 2017, 11:17 pm
Aspie1 wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Aspie1, I don't think your experience is the norm, though I could be wrong. I never got in trouble in school or from my parents for getting things wrong on my homework. Of course, I took my grades more seriously than they did b/c I think (but don't know b/c he, himself, never told me) that my dad had aspie like executive functioning issues that affected his grades.
Well, my parents treated my grades as the topmost priority, far above my mental health. Which caused me to make plan to run away from home every time a bad report card came. And I had nothing and no one to turn to. I had no friends. I also knew I couldn't talk to my teachers about it: they gave me those grades, and were therefore "the enemy" and shouldn't be trusted. And until 4th grade, I even believed that my elementary teacher was colluding with my parents: by giving me low grades on purpose, to give them extra opportunities to punish me. Or at least give me usual "I'm very disappointed in you!" spiel.Another thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: ALCOHOL. If something goes wrong in a teacher's day at school, he/she can drink some vodka after getting home, and all is well again. But kids have no such source of comfort; just their own mind! So when the OP's son's teacher has too many essays to grade, she can pound some shots after she's done. But when the OP's son has too much homework, he has nothing to relax himself with!
Just the dumb, ineffective "natural relaxation" crap.As you can tell, I started (ab)using alcohol pretty early. I was 12 when I first started sneaking whiskey to relax myself.
Could your parents have been on the spectrum as well?
30 Dec 2017, 2:29 am
30 Dec 2017, 8:26 am
Aspie1 wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Aspie1, I don't think your experience is the norm, though I could be wrong. I never got in trouble in school or from my parents for getting things wrong on my homework. Of course, I took my grades more seriously than they did b/c I think (but don't know b/c he, himself, never told me) that my dad had aspie like executive functioning issues that affected his grades.
Well, my parents treated my grades as the topmost priority, far above my mental health. Which caused me to make plan to run away from home every time a bad report card came. And I had nothing and no one to turn to. I had no friends. I also knew I couldn't talk to my teachers about it: they gave me those grades, and were therefore "the enemy" and shouldn't be trusted. And until 4th grade, I even believed that my elementary teacher was colluding with my parents: by giving me low grades on purpose, to give them extra opportunities to punish me. Or at least give me usual "I'm very disappointed in you!" spiel.Another thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: ALCOHOL. If something goes wrong in a teacher's day at school, he/she can drink some vodka after getting home, and all is well again. But kids have no such source of comfort; just their own mind! So when the OP's son's teacher has too many essays to grade, she can pound some shots after she's done. But when the OP's son has too much homework, he has nothing to relax himself with!
Just the dumb, ineffective "natural relaxation" crap.As you can tell, I started (ab)using alcohol pretty early. I was 12 when I first started sneaking whiskey to relax myself.
Yeah... See another thing is I think you are making some false assumptions about adults and drinking. If this is what you observed, I understand the assumption, but the notion that all adults use alcohol (or other mind altering substances) as a coping mechanism is incorrect. Assuming that all the adults in your life were colluding against you is a function of how terrible your parents were, I am sure. Using your parents to generalize that the world is solely occupied by adults who have kids just to exercise petty power plays over them and deprive them of joy is incorrect as well.
I am not saying adults/parents are all roses and unicorns. My parents had some serious issues that they visited upon me, at various points. My father was not above the petty power play, though it was fairly infrequent. My mother would throw me and my sibling under the bus, if it made her life easier. She had serious anxiety problems which she would amerliorate by making rules or nagging about things we did or did not do, or whatever it took to make her anxiety go away regardless of how these things affected us. She would not pull that crap on strangers or extended family who she was a people pleaser for -- just us.
So, it is not like I don't get it. Parents can suck and are often unfair-- but most of it is because of their own issues and not some plot designed to oppress children for no good reason. It may seem that way to a child who either does not have access to the background information or otherwise not in a position to analyze these things--but I don't think most families run quite so badly as you assume.
30 Dec 2017, 10:24 am
31 Dec 2017, 11:04 am
31 Dec 2017, 5:06 pm
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Kids are not for everyone and people who try to cajole people into having kids they don't want are incredibly annoying and short-sighted. I know this is a problem you have and honestly you have more patience than I did for it when I had to listen to that nonsense. (I have a son, now but at the time I did not plan on having kids at all) I was much more direct and snippy about it which helped deter the conversation once I got cruder about it. I would totally recommend shutting the conversation down as rudely as possible for repeat offenders unless they have other redeeming qualities you are willing to overlook their persistent presumptuousness for.
I think one major problem is that most NT people forget just how unpleasant it is to be a child: the powerlessness, the monsters in the closet, the naps, the early bedtimes, the yucky broccoli, the draconian teachers, the hours of frustrating homework, the fear of getting in trouble at home, the lack of understanding from adults---and last but not least---the lack of access to alcohol to numb the pain from it all. So, when people tell other people to have kids, they assume that being a child is all rainbows and unicorns. When it's clearly not. Especially in today's society.Oh, and speaking of alcohol, happy New Year!
31 Dec 2017, 5:42 pm
Aspie1 wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Kids are not for everyone and people who try to cajole people into having kids they don't want are incredibly annoying and short-sighted. I know this is a problem you have and honestly you have more patience than I did for it when I had to listen to that nonsense. (I have a son, now but at the time I did not plan on having kids at all) I was much more direct and snippy about it which helped deter the conversation once I got cruder about it. I would totally recommend shutting the conversation down as rudely as possible for repeat offenders unless they have other redeeming qualities you are willing to overlook their persistent presumptuousness for.
I think one major problem is that most NT people forget just how unpleasant it is to be a child: the powerlessness, the monsters in the closet, the naps, the early bedtimes, the yucky broccoli, the draconian teachers, the hours of frustrating homework, the fear of getting in trouble at home, the lack of understanding from adults---and last but not least---the lack of access to alcohol to numb the pain from it all. So, when people tell other people to have kids, they assume that being a child is all rainbows and unicorns. When it's clearly not. Especially in today's society.Oh, and speaking of alcohol, happy New Year!
I think you are right about that and I also think for a lot of NTs it is not unpleasant b/c while they have little power, they figure out a way to navigate the system to make it more tolerable. In addition I think a lot of people think the trade off of no power for no "real person" responsibility is worth it. For people on the spectrum, it is really hard to navigate to where things are OK. Adults suck a lot of times, The system sucks, and other kids suck, too.
Even though my dad could be difficult, at least I felt like we were the same species. (My dad was more AS than me; also undiagnosed) So even when he was being a jerk, I at least understood what he was doing and he had insight into my issues if I wanted to talk about them.
My mom was at best useless and at worst counterproductive and undermining because she had zero theory of mind in how I felt about really anything. Feeling alone in the world was the worst part, and at least when talking to my dad, when he was in the mood for a productive talk, I mostly didn't.
Being an adult is much better. Not everything is under your control, but the petty dictators in life seem more manageable when you don't have to live in their homes or under their thumbs.
Happy New Year to you too.
01 Jan 2018, 1:22 pm
01 Jan 2018, 2:30 pm
01 Jan 2018, 2:48 pm
01 Jan 2018, 3:36 pm
01 Jan 2018, 3:49 pm
01 Jan 2018, 3:56 pm
01 Jan 2018, 6:05 pm
rose3trs wrote:
We've talked to him about this, and explained how schoolwork is not optional and that its his "job" and... we said it all. He'll have to do summer school or repeat a grade, etc. He still doesn't "get it". I've asked him why he doesn't do it and he says, "its too easy" or "I already know how to do that." or "I can do it in my head." (He has been tested as gifted, so that may be true but besides the point).
My preschool/elementary school (before I learned to deal with boring tasks) teachers solved the issue by giving me more challenging schoolwork compared to my classmates.
It could be also solved by setting a time limit (we know you can do it but HOW FAST can you do it?), making it a game - but only if the task isn't too boring. This one I was kinda doing by myself - I would do my school work then look around, to help my peers with theirs because I was just too fast.
And by explaining that schoolwork isn't for him to learn anything but for the teacher to know he knows how to do it. Like a test.
And by making sure the tasks aren't actually too boring. I had a few teachers doing this - everyone in class complained their homeworks are pointless/boring/too long. Most recent was an IT course. It was basically copy-paste-run-figure out-take a screenshot-upload screenshot-repeat, 100 times in a row, wasting 3 hours. I could figure out the code result of 95 out of the 100 examples without actually running it so I only run and screenshot the few I didn't know. And I got an F.
Sometimes it's the school/teacher who is at fault, not the student.
07 Jan 2018, 1:17 am
rose3trs wrote:
Good morning, this is my first post. I'm a parent of an 11 year old boy with Aspie's. He started middle school this past September and the adjustment has been difficult. At first it was the constant change in schedule and the rotating classes. He's seems to have adjusted a bit to that. He's still extremely disorganized and works with the SPED team for his group to learn organization skills.
The reason I'm reaching out, is that he's "refusing" to do some class work. For some reason he thinks some of the work the teachers pass out is OPTIONAL. Although the teachers tell him that its not, that he has to do it and its part of his grade. 2nd semester grades have been released and before he was a solid A/B student, now he's all C's or C-'s. I reach out to the SPED team member who has helped us the most and she wrote a very honest e-mail about The Child's classroom performance. We're extremely thankful for her honesty. (Don't get me wrong, we've had fights with the school, but this one teacher is great).
She wrote "I also think his focus in class continues to be variable. There are days when he is more concerned with whatever he is using at his desk (i.e. origami) than completing his classwork. We continue to cue him to refocus. Sometimes he argues about the value of an assignment instead of just doing it. "
We've talked to him about this, and explained how schoolwork is not optional and that its his "job" and... we said it all. He'll have to do summer school or repeat a grade, etc. He still doesn't "get it". I've asked him why he doesn't do it and he says, "its too easy" or "I already know how to do that." or "I can do it in my head." (He has been tested as gifted, so that may be true but besides the point).
I'm asking for any advice on how to explain to The Child that the work needs to get done. Any other parents experienced this? Do you have any advice?
Man, I'm just so drained. Tired. Its always such a struggle. I love him to bits but what I wouldn't give for a few days in Aruba
Rose
The reason I'm reaching out, is that he's "refusing" to do some class work. For some reason he thinks some of the work the teachers pass out is OPTIONAL. Although the teachers tell him that its not, that he has to do it and its part of his grade. 2nd semester grades have been released and before he was a solid A/B student, now he's all C's or C-'s. I reach out to the SPED team member who has helped us the most and she wrote a very honest e-mail about The Child's classroom performance. We're extremely thankful for her honesty. (Don't get me wrong, we've had fights with the school, but this one teacher is great).
She wrote "I also think his focus in class continues to be variable. There are days when he is more concerned with whatever he is using at his desk (i.e. origami) than completing his classwork. We continue to cue him to refocus. Sometimes he argues about the value of an assignment instead of just doing it. "
We've talked to him about this, and explained how schoolwork is not optional and that its his "job" and... we said it all. He'll have to do summer school or repeat a grade, etc. He still doesn't "get it". I've asked him why he doesn't do it and he says, "its too easy" or "I already know how to do that." or "I can do it in my head." (He has been tested as gifted, so that may be true but besides the point).
I'm asking for any advice on how to explain to The Child that the work needs to get done. Any other parents experienced this? Do you have any advice?
Man, I'm just so drained. Tired. Its always such a struggle. I love him to bits but what I wouldn't give for a few days in Aruba
Rose
I was actually similar. You have to remember that what the institution is making your child do, is not always in your child's best interest. There is no "one size fits all" for education and learning. Throughout most of elementary school, I felt like I was a square peg trying to be hammered into a round hole. Teachers would give me worksheet over worksheet, which I could complete, but that I found boring, wasn't getting any faster at, and thought was essentially a waste of my time, and I still feel that way.
I would have preferred that time be used engaging in something I found interesting, useful or fulfilling and I feel that their attempts to force me to do the work was more detrimental than not.
I was proficient at reading and writing and could do arithmetic and multiplication, albeit slowly, and I think those two thing were the most important takeaways from elementary school. As far as middle school goes, the one thing I wish I had learned was algebra so I could move on to calculus in high school and wouldn't have had to take it in college. I was held back in math though because I was slow with arithmetic and didn't have my times tables memorized, but holding be back put me at a disadvantage and cause a significant delay in my life because even though I struggle with mental arithmetic, I'm gifted with higher in higher mathematics and now have a degree in it...I still don't have 8*6 memorized though.
Sometimes the child is smarter than the educators. If I had children, I wouldn't force them to do school work in subjects they were proficient in when they would rather move on and advance their education in other directions.
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