I can't play fighting games like chess.

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PaperMajora
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19 Dec 2017, 6:55 am

Anyone who's spent even a small amount of time in the competitive fighting game community will have heard this, or at least something similar. "To be good at fighting games you have to play them like a game of chess; get inside your opponents head and predict what they will do, always stay one step ahead of them." I've never been able to do this no matter how hard I try, and if I try I usually end up wasting brain power on trying to guess what my opponent will do, costing me the match. However, I can be good at fighting games when I sometimes enter a theta like state. i become super receptive and am able to react easily to my opponent and easily land a good offensive attack without having to think about it.

Does anyone else play fighting games like this?


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MariaTheFictionkin
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19 Dec 2017, 7:15 am

PaperMajora wrote:
Does anyone else play fighting games like this?


Not really "fighting" games specifically in terms of Dead or Alive and Mortal Kombat but definitely games that require a lot of strategy and predicting an opponent's move. Like for example, competitive Pokémon battling.

I'm a competitive Pokémon player and had years playing in the metagame scene. I have started to get familiar with using a damage calculator to calculate how much damage a move can do to an opposing Pokémon and how many turns it would take as so that I can better strategist and formulate my teams. I tend to go on Pokémon Showdown at times and battle, a good place to learn how to get into competitive battling.

I personally enjoy this competitive side of Pokemon but I also try to not be some drowned in it since for a while in the past I used to only be focused on the competitive side of Pokemon and nothing else which had begun to deteriorate the meaning behind one of my special interests.


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TheSpectrum
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19 Dec 2017, 10:49 pm

The thing about chess is it is turn based, so the above example (Pokemon) fits.
In live fighting like Street Fighter, MK, KI etc. that doesn't apply. It's a very unfitting comparison and sounds like a cliche a BS artist would conjur.

No. You just get to figure out the opponent over the course of a couple of matches.
If you don't get that opportunity then you must, like in a science experiment, throw out a few testers and see what results you get. In a fighting game that might be a projectile, or leaving yourself open to a throw and cancelling..or taking damage to build a Super and see how they handle the return. IDK fighting games have really evolved in the last decade.

But the reason you can't play fighting games like chess is simple - they aren't like chess at all.


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20 Dec 2017, 5:51 pm

Fighting games, yeah, I play alot of them.

I also DONT take the usual approaches that the community would have you think is the only approach. I dont know the stupid frame data crap (at all), I dont copy combos made from other players (where's the fun if I dont come up with them myself), and things like that.

But... doesnt matter. Chances are, I'm still the one winning, to the point where lately it's actually gotten a bit dull.

My own way of doing things is, well... very simple: I just rely on overwhelming speed. My reaction speed in a general sense is really abnormal, and I've always relied on that as my biggest advantage, giving me an excellent defense. On top of that, when it comes to offense, I tend to just go berserk. I can use the reaction speed to react to openings given by my opponent, so it makes it very easy to get in sudden strikes and begin combos and whatnot. The more agitated I get (for whatever reason) the faster I'll be. It's useful when it comes to gaming, not so useful in other applications.

The upside to this is, in fighting games, that I dont need to take the time to "get into an opponent's head". There isnt any point in studying the moves of someone who isnt able to have much of an effect on you due to being slower than a brick in sludge, after all. Not that there's a whole lot of reason to get into their head anyway: something I've noticed about fighting games is that MOST players just copy each other in terms of strategies/tactics. Fighting that type of player (and they are the most common type, and that includes high-level players) is typically the easiest sort of fight, because you've seen them do the same bloody things a million times over as done by other players. What always bugs me is that so very, very few of them realize this. They seem to also have trouble adapting to dealing with players that do not use the "right" tactics, which... doesnt exactly work to their advantage.

All in all, honestly, to me the best thing to do is to just ignore what the community says. I know they think their way is the ONLY way. After so very, very much experience in testing that theory, I can tell you.... they are wrong.

Come up with YOUR way to play these. Do what works for YOU, dont just do what they SAY will work for you. No matter how much "data" they may wave at you. Just because those things work for THEM, does not automatically mean it's right for you, and THAT is one of the most important things you can learn. For a huge variety of reasons, you'll end up that much stronger by learning to do things YOUR way.

Honestly, this is why these days I just dont bother even interacting with the community. It accomplishes nothing other than giving me the constant urge to bash my head against a tree.

Quote:
The thing about chess is it is turn based, so the above example (Pokemon) fits.
In live fighting like Street Fighter, MK, KI etc. that doesn't apply. It's a very unfitting comparison and sounds like a cliche a BS artist would conjur.


That's.... not what the comparison even means.

The comparison was about the whole "get into your opponent's mind and predict their future actions" bit. It is *not* about "turn based" elements. The OP even states this...



modernmax
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24 Dec 2017, 3:34 pm

Misery wrote:
Fighting games, yeah, I play alot of them.

I also DONT take the usual approaches that the community would have you think is the only approach. I dont know the stupid frame data crap (at all), I dont copy combos made from other players (where's the fun if I dont come up with them myself), and things like that.

But... doesnt matter. Chances are, I'm still the one winning, to the point where lately it's actually gotten a bit dull.

My own way of doing things is, well... very simple: I just rely on overwhelming speed. My reaction speed in a general sense is really abnormal, and I've always relied on that as my biggest advantage, giving me an excellent defense. On top of that, when it comes to offense, I tend to just go berserk. I can use the reaction speed to react to openings given by my opponent, so it makes it very easy to get in sudden strikes and begin combos and whatnot. The more agitated I get (for whatever reason) the faster I'll be. It's useful when it comes to gaming, not so useful in other applications.

The upside to this is, in fighting games, that I dont need to take the time to "get into an opponent's head". There isnt any point in studying the moves of someone who isnt able to have much of an effect on you due to being slower than a brick in sludge, after all. Not that there's a whole lot of reason to get into their head anyway: something I've noticed about fighting games is that MOST players just copy each other in terms of strategies/tactics. Fighting that type of player (and they are the most common type, and that includes high-level players) is typically the easiest sort of fight, because you've seen them do the same bloody things a million times over as done by other players. What always bugs me is that so very, very few of them realize this. They seem to also have trouble adapting to dealing with players that do not use the "right" tactics, which... doesnt exactly work to their advantage.

All in all, honestly, to me the best thing to do is to just ignore what the community says. I know they think their way is the ONLY way. After so very, very much experience in testing that theory, I can tell you.... they are wrong.

Come up with YOUR way to play these. Do what works for YOU, dont just do what they SAY will work for you. No matter how much "data" they may wave at you. Just because those things work for THEM, does not automatically mean it's right for you, and THAT is one of the most important things you can learn. For a huge variety of reasons, you'll end up that much stronger by learning to do things YOUR way.

Honestly, this is why these days I just dont bother even interacting with the community. It accomplishes nothing other than giving me the constant urge to bash my head against a tree.

Quote:
The thing about chess is it is turn based, so the above example (Pokemon) fits.
In live fighting like Street Fighter, MK, KI etc. that doesn't apply. It's a very unfitting comparison and sounds like a cliche a BS artist would conjur.


That's.... not what the comparison even means.

The comparison was about the whole "get into your opponent's mind and predict their future actions" bit. It is *not* about "turn based" elements. The OP even states this...


In that case, pretty much every competitive game can be considered like chess. Just because you're pro at chess doesn't mean you'll make a good basketball player.


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Misery
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24 Dec 2017, 5:31 pm

Quote:
In that case, pretty much every competitive game can be considered like chess. Just because you're pro at chess doesn't mean you'll make a good basketball player.


Still completely missing the point.

Nobody is actually comparing the game of chess to any other game here.

The comparison is about the fact that, in chess, "getting into your opponent's head" is half the game. To many players, fighting games are similar as you must constantly do the same thing (so they say, anyway).

The turn-based nature of the game and how it works, and any comparison of functions between it and other games, is utterly irrelevant for the purposes of that. It's meant simply to illustrate a concept.



komamanga
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24 Dec 2017, 8:17 pm

Anything competitive makes me very nervous and overwhelmed. Just can't.



SabbraCadabra
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25 Dec 2017, 4:15 am

Nope. I can't even play chess like chess :oops: I've always been really bad at strategy, I'm not good at predicting for the most part. I don't like most fighting games.

Now, oldschool games where you have to memorize boss monster's patterns and things like that, eventually I can get that down. Otherwise I just try to play as defensively as I can (unless the game is so easy that it's boring). That's probably why it takes me a lot longer to beat games than it takes other people. But hey, if it's a great game (like Breath of the Wild), I don't mind spending the extra hours enjoying it.

TheSpectrum wrote:
The thing about chess is it is turn based, so the above example (Pokemon) fits.
In live fighting like Street Fighter, MK, KI etc. that doesn't apply. It's a very unfitting comparison and sounds like a cliche a BS artist would conjur.

Well the analogy is about as old as Street Fighter II itself, so I don't think the cliché is going away anytime soon =)

TheSpectrum wrote:
No. You just get to figure out the opponent over the course of a couple of matches.

The age old "watch the guy at the arcade play for a while and study his techniques" technique. One thing that is definitely lost with online gaming.


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