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How important are labels?

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Onyxaxe
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25 Dec 2017, 10:31 pm

This thread may take a rather ambiguous vibe. I just came out as Bi. I've been taking quizzes and what not. The thing is, I have never dated or kissed a girl but I know I'm not straight. I'm trying to find out more about LGBTQ culture and norms so I don't waste a potential significant others time. I can't get a comfortable read on Butch, Dyke, or whatever I am. Being bisexual complicates this a bit since some terms are for lesbians only. I know for sure I'm not femme and just consider myself androgynous. I'm 5'10", my voice is deep. I have all the butch characteristics but find the word too strong. It's not as if i appreciate masculinity or machismo, I'm just not feminine. To be frank I find machismo disgusting and unnecessary in society. That's another issue though. Can I just go by androgynous? What do labels mean to you? Did they help you find your identity in LGBTQ culture or just complicate things for you?



FerrariFan
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27 Dec 2017, 9:42 am

Do you find it important to label yourself? That's the real question in my mind.

I am hetero to be clear, but I don't think of myself with that label. I am who I am and I like what I like. If someone likes me or hates me, it might bother me a little bit, but ultimately I don't really care and it doesn't matter much. I have, in my life, been labeled as "gay" or a "geek" or a "nerd" or any of probably hundreds of different titles, many of which are probably considered derogatory.

So, I tend to have a negative view on labeling anyone anything. Just be yourself and don't worry or stress over it whatever you may consider yourself.


FF



Onyxaxe
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27 Dec 2017, 4:37 pm

FerrariFan wrote:
Do you find it important to label yourself? That's the real question in my mind.

I am hetero to be clear, but I don't think of myself with that label. I am who I am and I like what I like. If someone likes me or hates me, it might bother me a little bit, but ultimately I don't really care and it doesn't matter much. I have, in my life, been labeled as "gay" or a "geek" or a "nerd" or any of probably hundreds of different titles, many of which are probably considered derogatory.

So, I tend to have a negative view on labeling anyone anything. Just be yourself and don't worry or stress over it whatever you may consider yourself.


FF


I agree with this but in a sense I do feel the need to label myself for some reason. Maybe because I'm newly out I, feel like it's significant in identifying and finding like minded individuals. It's cool to be free from labels, but something vague like Hetero doesn't help anyone understand your idiosyncracies and/or personality. I think it may be a necessary evil in LGBTQ culture. With that being said the terms are defined too loosely and there are too many. It's a juxtaposition to have gender fluidity in a heavily stereotyped minority culture.

Thank you for adding your perspective.



pandoradawn
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30 Dec 2017, 11:33 am

Labels aren't really as important as a lot of people make them out to be but they can be handy tools for trying to verbalize how you feel or identify. At least that's how I look at it.



BTDT
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30 Dec 2017, 12:38 pm

Why do dating sites use imprecise labels to describe how fat people when four numbers would do a much better job?

34-27-35 120 lbs.



Embla
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30 Dec 2017, 8:03 pm

FerrariFan has a good point. Only try and find your label if you want or need one.

I don't even like labelling myself as bisexual, because it fluctuates. Sometimes I'm interested in both men and women, sometimes only in women. Besides, it's not anyone elses business who I'm sleeping with anyway.
I really don't like the stereotype-labels such as butch. They're not even about your sexuality, but your personality, and that is much more nuanced than one label can cover. Of all my characteristics - personality traits, looks and manners - many of them could show up in a description of the "typical butch", but some of them would land other places, and some of them changes with time. I don't feel the need for putting myself in a box like that. I find that strange about the gay community, because it should be very open-minded and have less stereotype-prejudice, but they still choose to categorise themselves like this.



Onyxaxe
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30 Dec 2017, 8:40 pm

Embla wrote:
FerrariFan has a good point. Only try and find your label if you want or need one.

I don't even like labelling myself as bisexual, because it fluctuates. Sometimes I'm interested in both men and women, sometimes only in women. Besides, it's not anyone elses business who I'm sleeping with anyway.
I really don't like the stereotype-labels such as butch. They're not even about your sexuality, but your personality, and that is much more nuanced than one label can cover. Of all my characteristics - personality traits, looks and manners - many of them could show up in a description of the "typical butch", but some of them would land other places, and some of them changes with time. I don't feel the need for putting myself in a box like that. I find that strange about the gay community, because it should be very open-minded and have less stereotype-prejudice, but they still choose to categorise themselves like this.


Thank you, this helps tremendously. You hit every point I had. I've spent a lot of time this past week and I'll just go with an androgynous-bisexual. I think people can tell that by looking at me anyway so I probably don't even a label to explain myself. The term butch bothers me a lot, I'm not that "masculine" and I don't like gender stereotypical associations anyway. It took until now to realize that Tomboy is a problem. Androgynous girls aren't boys, they're just girls that don't do stereotypical "femme" stuff. I'm done with labels. I have a sense of pride in my andro look and bisexuality though so I'll go with those. I just think it's so cool that tall, lanky women with this rock persona or successful business woman vibe can come across as strong in their own right, it just happens to register as masculine because of society branding men as strong and women as weak. Now that I've evolved into this confident, handsome woman I'm proud of the andro woman vibes I put out. I however am not butch. I hate the word, it's like the lesbian term for macho. My defiance towards masculinity is one of the things that makes me attracted to women in the first place. It's so weird how that works. To be honest boo on OITNB scares me lol.



Embla
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02 Jan 2018, 1:43 am

Onyxaxe wrote:
Embla wrote:
FerrariFan has a good point. Only try and find your label if you want or need one.

I don't even like labelling myself as bisexual, because it fluctuates. Sometimes I'm interested in both men and women, sometimes only in women. Besides, it's not anyone elses business who I'm sleeping with anyway.
I really don't like the stereotype-labels such as butch. They're not even about your sexuality, but your personality, and that is much more nuanced than one label can cover. Of all my characteristics - personality traits, looks and manners - many of them could show up in a description of the "typical butch", but some of them would land other places, and some of them changes with time. I don't feel the need for putting myself in a box like that. I find that strange about the gay community, because it should be very open-minded and have less stereotype-prejudice, but they still choose to categorise themselves like this.


Thank you, this helps tremendously. You hit every point I had. I've spent a lot of time this past week and I'll just go with an androgynous-bisexual. I think people can tell that by looking at me anyway so I probably don't even a label to explain myself. The term butch bothers me a lot, I'm not that "masculine" and I don't like gender stereotypical associations anyway. It took until now to realize that Tomboy is a problem. Androgynous girls aren't boys, they're just girls that don't do stereotypical "femme" stuff. I'm done with labels. I have a sense of pride in my andro look and bisexuality though so I'll go with those. I just think it's so cool that tall, lanky women with this rock persona or successful business woman vibe can come across as strong in their own right, it just happens to register as masculine because of society branding men as strong and women as weak. Now that I've evolved into this confident, handsome woman I'm proud of the andro woman vibes I put out. I however am not butch. I hate the word, it's like the lesbian term for macho. My defiance towards masculinity is one of the things that makes me attracted to women in the first place. It's so weird how that works. To be honest boo on OITNB scares me lol.



Hooray! I was useful! :lol:

Good to know that you're finding confidence in this. I was struggling for a long time, even considering if maybe I was trans for many years, maybe because I felt no connection to women, and just didn't fit into the lady-frame. But I don't really fit into the dude-frame either. Turns out, it wasn't the body that was the problem, just the mindset. And so many people labeling me as lesbian and closet-trans, to the point I started believing it. Now I'm really happy about just being me.

Haven't watched much of OiTNB, but I kind of like that character actually. Though if I met her in real life I would be intimidated as hell :P



Onyxaxe
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02 Jan 2018, 7:41 am

Embla wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
Embla wrote:
FerrariFan has a good point. Only try and find your label if you want or need one.

I don't even like labelling myself as bisexual, because it fluctuates. Sometimes I'm interested in both men and women, sometimes only in women. Besides, it's not anyone elses business who I'm sleeping with anyway.
I really don't like the stereotype-labels such as butch. They're not even about your sexuality, but your personality, and that is much more nuanced than one label can cover. Of all my characteristics - personality traits, looks and manners - many of them could show up in a description of the "typical butch", but some of them would land other places, and some of them changes with time. I don't feel the need for putting myself in a box like that. I find that strange about the gay community, because it should be very open-minded and have less stereotype-prejudice, but they still choose to categorise themselves like this.


Thank you, this helps tremendously. You hit every point I had. I've spent a lot of time this past week and I'll just go with an androgynous-bisexual. I think people can tell that by looking at me anyway so I probably don't even a label to explain myself. The term butch bothers me a lot, I'm not that "masculine" and I don't like gender stereotypical associations anyway. It took until now to realize that Tomboy is a problem. Androgynous girls aren't boys, they're just girls that don't do stereotypical "femme" stuff. I'm done with labels. I have a sense of pride in my andro look and bisexuality though so I'll go with those. I just think it's so cool that tall, lanky women with this rock persona or successful business woman vibe can come across as strong in their own right, it just happens to register as masculine because of society branding men as strong and women as weak. Now that I've evolved into this confident, handsome woman I'm proud of the andro woman vibes I put out. I however am not butch. I hate the word, it's like the lesbian term for macho. My defiance towards masculinity is one of the things that makes me attracted to women in the first place. It's so weird how that works. To be honest boo on OITNB scares me lol.



Hooray! I was useful! :lol:

Good to know that you're finding confidence in this. I was struggling for a long time, even considering if maybe I was trans for many years, maybe because I felt no connection to women, and just didn't fit into the lady-frame. But I don't really fit into the dude-frame either. Turns out, it wasn't the body that was the problem, just the mindset. And so many people labeling me as lesbian and closet-trans, to the point I started believing it. Now I'm really happy about just being me.

Haven't watched much of OiTNB, but I kind of like that character actually. Though if I met her in real life I would be intimidated as hell :P


That's the thing with labeling people. It doesn't always bring out what's within. I don't know how many times I've been called a tomboy. The thousands of times people associate girls who act "boyish" by literally calling them tom-BOY must have some effect on their confidence as a woman when they reach their teens and adulthood. It's almost like if you're not femme they're pushing you to trans, or trying to lead you to believe you yourself don't know what you want as a woman and that you are actually manly. I've worn makeup since my teen years, dresses, heels and all of a sudden I'm supposed to be butch or even trans just because I ditched it to be covered in bike grease and skate all the time? No, I just clean up when I need to. For a society that struggles with the basics there sure are a lot of ideals and stereotypes to project onto people.

Rant over lol



Onyxaxe
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02 Jan 2018, 7:42 am

For the record I think Boo is awesome. Just scary in a shocking way



Spycraft
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04 Jan 2018, 4:49 am

I didn't realise how important labels were to me until last year.

I've had gender stereotypes pushed on me all my life so by my late teens/early twenties I decided to give in but I felt fake, like an impostor. Then I realised or admitted to myself I was trans. Because I didn't want any of that expensive surgery or expensive HRT with possible side effects I went for the 'they' pronoun. That wasn't enough. I wasn't being true to the kid I was. I always knew since I was 4 that I was a boy. I knew people wouldn't accept it so I allowed them to think I was a tomboy but I was always jealous of my best friend Derek and my brother for living the kind of childhood I couldn't.
My body dysphoria made me feel suicidal and wanting to self-harm. The moment I adopted the 'he' pronoun those feelings immediately went away. I don't even like to think of myself as transgender because the desire to be male is so strong. But is that transphobic? If so I should stop. This secret life I used to live was always just me, I didn't know there were others like me so I couldn't see it in other people.

So, I guess it depends what labeling makes you feel. I've always been comfortable and reassured with my autistic identity. I feel the same way about being transgender.



Onyxaxe
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04 Jan 2018, 10:41 pm

Spycraft wrote:
I didn't realise how important labels were to me until last year.

I've had gender stereotypes pushed on me all my life so by my late teens/early twenties I decided to give in but I felt fake, like an impostor. Then I realised or admitted to myself I was trans. Because I didn't want any of that expensive surgery or expensive HRT with possible side effects I went for the 'they' pronoun. That wasn't enough. I wasn't being true to the kid I was. I always knew since I was 4 that I was a boy. I knew people wouldn't accept it so I allowed them to think I was a tomboy but I was always jealous of my best friend Derek and my brother for living the kind of childhood I couldn't.
My body dysphoria made me feel suicidal and wanting to self-harm. The moment I adopted the 'he' pronoun those feelings immediately went away. I don't even like to think of myself as transgender because the desire to be male is so strong. But is that transphobic? If so I should stop. This secret life I used to live was always just me, I didn't know there were others like me so I couldn't see it in other people.

So, I guess it depends what labeling makes you feel. I've always been comfortable and reassured with my autistic identity. I feel the same way about being transgender.



I'm not sure it's possible for anything you feel to be transphobic. It sounds like you should set the standard for that alone.

I'm curious as to why you felt you couldn't live like your brothers though. If it's too personal I understand. That aspect of trans identity has piqued my interest though as a tomboy who never felt the need to conform to gender roles in general.