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ASDMommyASDKid
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02 Jan 2018, 7:55 am

eikonabridge wrote:
[q

I guess it's a matter of "the grass is always greener on the other side." I have seen the opposite of what you describe. I've seen MBAs complaining about they should've gone onto a technical track instead. I've seen people switching from client-facing roles to technical roles as well. Also, if you look at the change in the


I wish I could be as optimistic on you on this, but I can't. Due to the fact that I home school and do not do so for religious reasons, I look at a lot of public school curriculum to decide what to use as well as the state exams for multiple states so I can see what standards I need to meet for my child to be competitive. If you look at what is going on in the science and math-related fields you will see that communication skills have an increased emphasis in both the curriculum and in the final yer tests. Used to be that if you could work out the answers to highly technical questions (and show your work) that was more than sufficient. Now you have to be able to communicate how you did what you did and what your answer means into dumbed-down non-technical speak.

Right now, that is OK for us because it is something we need to work on, and we are not in public school. For kids who are, this means that the kids who communicate well with mediocre math/science skills/aptitude are getting a leg up on grades in subjects they would normally not do so well in. In contrast, kids who could whizz through maths and sciences and balance out their maybe not so great grades in the humanities are now being saddled with English class type requirements in their technical subjects and this is going to make their grades in those subject suffer.

If you combine this with what you posted about technical skills being taught universally, you can see where this goes. This makes it easier for employers to find "good enough" engineers/scientists etc. with good communication skills and they don't need to hire the better scientists with poor communication skills who are not a "good fit" for the organization. Yes, there will always be a need for the top flight guys and girls, but the demand will be lower, the jobs fewer than they are even now, and harder to get.

I have multiple family members in IT and I can tell you that the requirements for collaboration and communication are higher than they have been and are heading higher. The meetings and teamwork requirements are greater than they were even a decade ago. i do not see this abating and now that every little kid is being taught technical skills, this will make things worse.



Trojanofpeace
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02 Jan 2018, 8:38 am

fluffysaurus wrote:
Trojanofpeace wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
Mechanics apprenticeship would lead to a job where poor social skills would be no hindrance and probable self-employment. I think it's a job where it's appreciated that you just get on with it.

A job with a sports club or as a personal trainer would take more social abilities as well as less control over work environment.

I find exercise helpful dealing with depression as well as with my lack of motivation but it might be an idea to look out for diet and/or exercise becoming obsessive, sorry to worry you.

I have at times been too isolated, but this has always been the result of me retreating due to being overwhelmed. It's as if a step forward means being dragged along in an exhausting tide, but when I step back I fall down a hole into a pit.



I see your logic and in times gone by I'd get that. But in the modern world it doesn't ring so true, good social skills are expected more and more in every trade ad customer service becomes paramount. I've known people on the spectrum, in engineering roles, who have either experienced great discord in the workplace of lost there jobs for this very reason.


I find the shop assistant/customer relationship good because it's a very simple form of interaction that follows a pattern, in fact I enjoy it. It's colleagues that I have really struggled with particularly in places less busy, it's all complicated and people think I'm being difficult :( I would never attempt to work in an office, I'm not surprised your colleagues have lost their jobs, but we are all a bit different, how do you manage it?


Experience and training. I'm inspired by leaders who really seem to genuinely be about other people rather than themselves. I can recommend some books, one is called the heroes journey, i forget the author. It's abit lengthy but a few chapters give a good picture of what it's about. It discusses the role of the hero in story telling, but you can see how it relates to everyday life. So i try to be the 'hero' and focus on helping others first.

The Chimp Paradox is also an essential read and helps you understand the basics of how our minds work. The 7 Habits of Effective People is also a good read and Start With Why by Simon Sinek.



Trojanofpeace
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02 Jan 2018, 8:44 am

eikonabridge wrote:
Trojanofpeace wrote:
I see your logic and in times gone by I'd get that. But in the modern world it doesn't ring so true, good social skills are expected more and more in every trade ad customer service becomes paramount. I've known people on the spectrum, in engineering roles, who have either experienced great discord in the workplace of lost there jobs for this very reason.

I guess it's a matter of "the grass is always greener on the other side." I have seen the opposite of what you describe. I've seen MBAs complaining about they should've gone onto a technical track instead. I've seen people switching from client-facing roles to technical roles as well. Also, if you look at the change in the US education (from kindergarten to high school), you will see a dramatic increase in emphasis on technical aspects. Furthermore, recently it was reported that US teenagers are postponing all adult-related behaviors (e.g.: alcohol, driving, dating, etc.) See https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/extended-adolescence-when-25-is-the-new-181/.

If anything, the neurotypical world is trending in the autistic direction. This is for a good reason: we already live inside the Technological Singularity. People are preparing themselves for a robotic economy. It's a matter of survival.

It's also worth noting that companies after companies are welcoming prospect autistic employees.

To me, the emphasis on social and verbal aspects is precisely what has ruined the lives of millions of autistic children. I wish time could turn back and people hadn't wasted their children's early days in all those meaningless and harmful social skill development, behavioral correction and speech therapy. It's just sad to see children becoming underdeveloped due to our society's ignorance about autism. Most become adults stuck with sensory and anxiety issues, have low self-esteem, and can only hold low level jobs, if any. Many go on to take prescription drugs. Some even become violent in school. The number one lie about autism is that these children are sick/defective and must be taught to socialize. Our society spends too much time in "treatment" of autistic children, to the point of completely forgetting to develop them. When people look back in another 20 or 30 years, they will feel so much shame.

To be more direct: I don't think you should perpetuate the notion about "social skills are paramount." It's not only not true, but it's also harmful to the proper development of autistic children. There is absolutely no need to teach autistic children to talk, or to socialize. They'll pick up these skills on their own, when they are properly developed. There is a different way of developing these children. These children are not defective. Our society is. Our society is ignorant, and is dangerous to the development of these children.


The success of social media is not a fluke. I've said it time and time again, we are social species, this very forum proves that. Anything that undermines social engagement is a disadvantage and anything that can improve it is not a waste of time.

Automation and robotics will ever decrease the professions to a point where there is nowhere left to 'hide'. Social expectations are increasing exponentially as the Experience Economy races towards overtaking consumerism.



Trojanofpeace
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02 Jan 2018, 2:59 pm

fluffysaurus - the book is actually called The Hero With a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. It discusses the theory of the journey of the archetypal hero found in world mythologies. It's abit 'involved' but I have found it one of the most inspiring reads of my life.



eikonabridge
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08 Jan 2018, 11:53 pm

Trojanofpeace wrote:
The success of social media is not a fluke. I've said it time and time again, we are social species, this very forum proves that. Anything that undermines social engagement is a disadvantage and anything that can improve it is not a waste of time.

I am probably the parent that pays least attention to the social development of his children, yet my children are more social than most other autistic children out there. I am also the parent that let the children throw tantrums freely, yet my children are the happiest children around. This is even written into my children's IEPs, so there is solid proof of everything that I say. As one teacher puts it, my son smiles "from ear to ear."

On the other hands, all parents that try hard on making their children socialize, have nothing to show. What I've consistently seen is, those parents start to teach their children to socialize from age 2 or 3. By the time these children are in their 20s or 30s, those parents are still trying to make their children socialize.

In the Christmas break, my children hanged around with their cousins. My wife told me: "Look at how well Ivan is socializing with his younger cousins! You are right, these children really don't need any socialization training... they pick up socialization on their own!" I had to roll my eyes at my wife, to let her know that of course I was right.

Autistic children don't need social skill training, nor speech therapy. They are not sick. They are not defective. Autistic children are social, by nature, because they are humans. There is nothing to do in the direction of verbalization or socialization. You develop them properly, all the verbal and social skills will come, for free. You try to socialize them, and you end up harming their self-esteem and you end up ruining these children's lives. It's not even a case of "the cure being worse than the disease": there was no disease, to begin with.

Social media: all the parents that I've seen that are social media stars, have horribly underdeveloped children. You would think that these parents would do well because they know so much: they know which teachers are good and which teachers are bad, they know all the advocates and legal resources out there, they participate in all the local conferences on autism, they virtually know all the autistic families in town, they know all the available therapies out there, they know all about nutrition, supplements, prescription drugs, they know all the ABA providers, they know all the discounts and freebies for autistic children. They spend their life on social networks non-stop. You'd think their children must do well. Yeah right. It's all exactly the opposite: their children are among the most underdeveloped ones. How come? OK, it could be one unlucky case, you tell yourself. But once you see one family after another like that, then you start to get the causality of things. These parents are the cause of their children's underdevelopment.

Why is it that once people start to focus on "social" aspects, their autistic children's lives automatically get ruined?

Why is it that when parents don't pay attention at all to their children's social skill development, their children instead turn out much more social?

How was I able to let my children throw tantrums freely, yet my children are the happiest children around town?

How come other parents have to struggle, but our life is so easy nowadays, to the point that my neurotypical wife would tell people, that if she had to do it all over again, she would still choose to raise autistic children?

I don't suffer. I have a good and easy life. Those people that promote socializing autistic children, they don't have a good or easy life. Yet they are telling people what to do. I don't get it.

People, give me a success story and I'll believe you. To all of you: you don't want me to dig into your past postings and prove how you've complained how hard your life have been, how hard it has been to raise your children. All I see is people telling each other how hard their lives have been, how many tears they have shed, and then they turn around and tell people how to raise kids. Huh?

I've never shed a single teardrop about my children being autistic. I've had fun. Lots of fun.

So when people tell me that socializing autistic children is important, I say: yeah right. Look at your own children, look at mine. No, thanks. My children are so much happier and so much more social than yours.


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Jason Lu
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