Identifying toxic/abusive people who are stealthy & complex

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Summer_Twilight
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21 Jan 2018, 10:43 am

So we are talking about people who are ashamed to be with us but lead us around, I had mentioned that I was close to someone for 8 years who did exactly just that. She, her friends, family and spouse disapproved of me because I have a strong personality because I am outspoken and self-determined and they hated me for it because it made them feel insecure.

About a year and a half after our friendship had ended she and I sat down only to have her drop all kinds of reasons why we couldn't be friends such as
1. Her husband was against us meeting because he didn't like me "Of course my husband was against us meeting."
2. We had nothing in common
3. There is a huge age difference between us
4. Every time she turned around I would get mad at her for things that were not true
5. How these other people in their lives were more preferable than I was in the eyes of she and her husand
"My new friend and I share the same values and have this and that in common." "My husband doesn't like you but likes one of your close friends better. He also likes one of my other close friends. In fact we went to the mall a few weeks ago and they had a good time."
6. She only had me in her life because she latched onto anyone because she was lonely
7. She admitted to being a "People pleaser" and that she had always been something that she wasn't. This included lying to me about all of her interests.
8. She went on to blame me for talking about she and her husband on Facebook after they came to a party that I had only to show no interest in the party because "They felt out of place" while have arrogant attitudes and have no consideration that they were in someone else's house. "That's the straw that broke the camel's back."

(That meeting made me cry)

Then when we were leaving, she gave me a hug and said that I could "Email her every now and then" after she said all those other nasty things during the meeting that made me feel bad.



jadinfinity
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21 Jan 2018, 5:06 pm

sorry twilight... :<
it does seem like loneliness will drive us to do things we wouldn't in order to have a friend. i ended up playing a game that person liked for years in order to be closer to them as a friend, when really i was being lied to all along.

Time is a precious/limited resource when it comes to our social lives and needs, so people use power/control to get it... You say this person was a people pleaser, but to me that doesn't seem as much of manipulation as what her husband is doing? (possibly picking her friends for his own desires or the sake of their relationship) she might be ending up the one being manipulated?
sorry if that's overspeculation or anything. i'm sure you guys have something in common, otherwise couldn't have been friends for 8 years right?

i think i'm learning for myself at least, not to push anyone entirely out of my life, because now i know that people can let themselves be manipulated the same way i did. but if they go to a new life then at least they're happier, and the best solution to all these kinds of things is to always love/respect yourself - since if you do that, you'll always be loved and nobody can take that away from you either. it's its own habit... then new friendships can begin from there.

thanks too for the other link llama! i'll be checking it out more with the other today



Summer_Twilight
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21 Jan 2018, 6:57 pm

jadinfinity wrote:
sorry twilight... :<
it does seem like loneliness will drive us to do things we wouldn't in order to have a friend. i ended up playing a game that person liked for years in order to be closer to them as a friend, when really i was being lied to all along.

Time is a precious/limited resource when it comes to our social lives and needs, so people use power/control to get it... You say this person was a people pleaser, but to me that doesn't seem as much of manipulation as what her husband is doing? (possibly picking her friends for his own desires or the sake of their relationship) she might be ending up the one being manipulated?
sorry if that's overspeculation or anything. i'm sure you guys have something in common, otherwise couldn't have been friends for 8 years right?

i think i'm learning for myself at least, not to push anyone entirely out of my life, because now i know that people can let themselves be manipulated the same way i did. but if they go to a new life then at least they're happier, and the best solution to all these kinds of things is to always love/respect yourself - since if you do that, you'll always be loved and nobody can take that away from you either. it's its own habit... then new friendships can begin from there.

thanks too for the other link llama! i'll be checking it out more with the other today


She had a very manipulative side to her too in which she did this by
1. Constantly telling me that her other friends and family members didn't like me just about everytime I caught her doing things that were questionable
2. She invited me to her father's home onetime and then decided to take the invite away because she and her father had a poor relationship while he and I got along so she was jealous. Anyway, she told me that she had asked her dad if she could invite me over to a cookout but he said no because he was having another guest over with seizures next to being under lots of stress. Because I would dominate the conversation, he was supposedly worried that my talking would set him off.



HistoryGal
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22 Jan 2018, 6:34 am

Twilight, you are better off without her.......



Summer_Twilight
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22 Jan 2018, 8:19 am

HistoryGal wrote:
Twilight, you are better off without her.......



Thank you very much and I have to keep reminding myself of that though it still very much haunts me what she pulled next to still feeling emotionally attached because I thought she was my friend and she betrayed me.

Her problem wasn't that she was a sociopath but it was more about her being both envious of me for various reasons and jealous of me because of my charismatic personality with the fears that I would outshine her. She was also afraid that I would steal her husband away from her. :D Which is highly unlikely because
A. He is so much older than I am
B. He was so stuck on being stuck up
C. We had different personalities



ladyelaine
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22 Jan 2018, 11:35 am

Summer_Twilight wrote:
HistoryGal wrote:
Twilight, you are better off without her.......



Thank you very much and I have to keep reminding myself of that though it still very much haunts me what she pulled next to still feeling emotionally attached because I thought she was my friend and she betrayed me.

Her problem wasn't that she was a sociopath but it was more about her being both envious of me for various reasons and jealous of me because of my charismatic personality with the fears that I would outshine her. She was also afraid that I would steal her husband away from her. :D Which is highly unlikely because
A. He is so much older than I am
B. He was so stuck on being stuck up
C. We had different personalities


Women get really bitchy when attractive women are anywhere near their husbands. I have been accused of being a man stealer before. I don't want to steal anyone's husbands. It's not my fault that some married men are perverts. It's not my fault that married men talk about sports with me. It's not my fault that women choose to believe the gossip that other women spread around about me.

Like Historygal said, you are better off without that chick.



Summer_Twilight
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22 Jan 2018, 1:15 pm

Ladyelaine,

I don't think she really needed to worry about me being a love interest for him because he disliked me. Why?
1. I am very outspoken and independent while he believes that he can't due to having a piece of his brain cut out due to a brain tumor. So her adult husband was overly coddled by protective by his parents because they believed he was broken. Which is not true because there are lots of things that he can still do very well. He basically feels very intimidated by me because he's been taught that thinks that he "He can't."
2. He himself was jealous of me his wife and I had a close relationship
3. He thought he was the center of the universe and always seemed to think it was okay to get his way.
Example one time he asked me where my music channel was and he basically had an attitude when I told him I didn't have it where he crossed his arms and looked off into space with a pouty attitude.
4. His parents are wealthy while my family really isn't. Basically, they can buy him expensive things that I "Otherwise cannot afford."
5. I am not Catholic like him



HistoryGal
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22 Jan 2018, 3:54 pm

Oh blessings Twilight. None of this is your fault. He is wrong to not like someone just because you are a different religion. Unfortunately some Catholics are like that. Ugh



ladyelaine
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22 Jan 2018, 6:53 pm

Twilight, He sounds like a spoiled brat.



Summer_Twilight
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22 Jan 2018, 7:25 pm

Ladyelaine, he didn't act like that when they first dated. Rather he was really sweet and often offered to buy me things like coffee. After they got married, his bratty and true colors emerged. He's not only spoiled but also very supercilious.

My ex-friend, is also the bit of a spoiled brat herself and became after they got married next to becoming extremely pretentious and arrogant.
Examples
1. She often talked about how she and her husband never had any money but then I would turn around and she would always have a new outfit on that were from expensive stores
2. She had NLD and not autism or Asperger's so she was superior to me.
3. Whenever someone else had hurt my feelings, she would give me a really cold answer. One time her mother-in-law put me down about how I could not afford to buy some condos though I was just curious. I got "Well maybe she said that based on the neighborhood where you live."
4. The last time she was at my condo, her nose was in the air so high it wasn't funny.



ladyelaine
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22 Jan 2018, 7:40 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
Ladyelaine, he didn't act like that when they first dated. Rather he was really sweet and often offered to buy me things like coffee. After they got married, his bratty and true colors emerged. He's not only spoiled but also very supercilious.

My ex-friend, is also the bit of a spoiled brat herself and became after they got married next to becoming extremely pretentious and arrogant.
Examples
1. She often talked about how she and her husband never had any money but then I would turn around and she would always have a new outfit on that were from expensive stores
2. She had NLD and not autism or Asperger's so she was superior to me.
3. Whenever someone else had hurt my feelings, she would give me a really cold answer. One time her mother-in-law put me down about how I could not afford to buy some condos though I was just curious. I got "Well maybe she said that based on the neighborhood where you live."
4. The last time she was at my condo, her nose was in the air so high it wasn't funny.


I can't stand when people go around talking about how broke they are and yet they are buying new stuff all the time and going all over the place. I also hate how people turn into complete snobs when they marry into money.



Summer_Twilight
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22 Jan 2018, 8:08 pm

His parents bought them a nice condo about a year after they got married and that's when their noses got pretty high. They were uppity before that but it really peaked when they got that condo.

For example, which was right before they moved in, we went out to lunch at a pizzeria and while we were sitting there she made the point of asking me, "Do you have enough?" which implied that I had enough money to pay for lunch.



HistoryGal
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23 Jan 2018, 6:32 pm

Snobs suck.



Summer_Twilight
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23 Jan 2018, 9:01 pm

It's funny because...
1. She always talking about how her father turned into a major jerk after he married her stepmother who didn't like my ex-friend and was cold to her. Well, it sounds like she turned out to be just like what her father pulled after being re-married
2. She always complained about everyone treating her like a "Pile of dog crap" because she had learning disabilities, however, she sure turned around and treated others like piles of dog crap or rather made them feel that way.



JustFoundHere
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23 Jan 2018, 10:12 pm

In the 'Similar Topics' Section of WP at the bottom of the latest posts, there's a very similar discussion thread: 'Stratagems of Toxic/Abusive people. Manipulation/Gaslighting.'



SSJ4_PrestonGarvey
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24 Jan 2018, 6:20 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
In the 'Similar Topics' Section of WP at the bottom of the latest posts, there's a very similar discussion thread: 'Stratagems of Toxic/Abusive people. Manipulation/Gaslighting.'

I also created that topic. IMO there are two major sides to this for people dealing with issues with toxic, abusive, troublemaking people:

1. Identifying the toxically abusive people, even/especially when they make efforts to avoid easy identification. Easiest solution is whenever possible simply choosing not to include such people in our lives. Refusing to speak to such people. cutting contact, leaving social group if necessary, depending on severity perhaps moving away or seeking restraining order. Getting another job perhaps if this stuff is entrenched in your workplace.

2. Understanding their strategies: The simplest form reduction of what they do is that they create feedback systems/feedback loops that cause adverse psychological effects for the intended target. We cannot always easily avoid or otherwise remove such people from our lives so there might be situations where we'll want to understand and potentially mitigate such strategies. Maybe they're your boss and it isn't a simple matter to be able to get another job elsewhere.

I wish to counter such strategies however possible. If I am unable to leave a situation I assume that the inability to leave on my part is already known by them and is considered by them as a calculated factor. What's generally always true is that the targeted individual is viewed in a dehumanizing context therefore they can fully disregard morality.


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