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Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2018, 12:04 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the OP:
I myself am an American largely of German stock on both sides. My family has had a long memory, and I can honestly say, I had never heard occasion of German Americans being targeted with discrimination in the WWII era, particularly by the government. Now, the WWI era was very different, with German Americans being targeted as imagined fifth columnists - along with pacifists, labor radicals, leftists, and eventually blacks and Jews (it's no accident that the KKK was reborn in that political atmosphere) all under the aegis of the Wilson administration. But the period of time before, and of, the Second World War, the question of German American loyalty wasn't a concern, with the exception of a Pro-Nazi minority. Far from it, the Roosevelt administration purposely placed many generals with German names at the helm of the war effort. In fact, while Roosevelt is a Dutch name, the Roosevelt family themselves have a degree of German ancestry.

Do you deny that German Americans were sent to Prison Camps in the US, during The Second World War?


Of course there were, but these were comparatively few in comparison to the numbers of Japanese Americans sent to camps. Yes, it was an outrageous attack on their civil rights, no one can deny that. But as far as I can see, all of the German Americans interned were new immigrants off the boat, rather than the millions of Americans of German descent who had been born and raised in American culture. Even so, not every German immigrant was detained, as many such as the actor who played Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes had fled with his family from the Nazis, and had even served in the American army during the war.


Check out the Ni'ihau Incident in which two islanders of Japanese descent on the Hawaiian island of Ni'ihau jumped at the chance to help a Japanese pilot who crashed on Ni'ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That two people with minimal ties to Japan would suddenly commit treason against the US on the first day of fighting (war had yet to be declared) was a very good reason to be concerned. It made the imprisonment of Japanese Americans for the duration of the war look like a very good idea. With fears of an immediate attack on the continental US from Japan, the last thing we needed was a bunch of fifth columnists working behind the scenes to cripple the US.


In that account you brought up, the operative term is: "war had yet to be declared." Besides, that was just two guys. As soon as hostilities were made official on our part, I seriously doubt Japanese Americans were going to display disloyalty. In fact, many young Japanese American men in those camps volunteered to serve in the US army.


Do you really believe that someone who readily jumped in to help an enemy pilot who crashed after attacking this country is somehow going to have a complete change in attitude and be loyal to the US once we declared war?

The notion is especially absurd because their helping the enemy pilot continued after we declared war. They should have been executed for treason.


Even so, that was only two people. You can't judge a whole population's motives on the actions of two people.


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Pepe
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20 Feb 2018, 4:13 pm

Pepe wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Do you really believe that someone who readily jumped in to help an enemy pilot who crashed after attacking this country is somehow going to have a complete change in attitude and be loyal to the US once we declared war?

The notion is especially absurd because their helping the enemy pilot continued after we declared war. They should have been executed for treason.

I don't know the circumstances but my first thought was they were saving a human being...
Did they hide him?
What indicated they were treasonous?

I think you answered my question already...
I wasn't paying enough attention...
As you were, soldier... :salut:



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20 Feb 2018, 7:54 pm

...I meant that Crouch still used " Negro ", not " Negri ", that was my clumsy fingers and this little phone's keyboard. Crouch apparently still writes his News column, but a quick look found nothing more recent than 2014. I don't know whether the 21st Century NYDN would have, Standards & Practices-wise, allowed the continued use of " Negro ".
Malcolm X made use of this " Oreo cookie " sarcastic meaning of " Negro " so it's over 50 years old.





hgauer"]

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......and changed its borders a great deal over the years - and post-World War II a great many German-identified people who.were driven out of other parts of Europe took up residence in Gernany - And, German-speaking Austria wa, for many centuries, the massive Austria-Hungarian Empire, with many many many other ethnic groups & languages...What is the definition if " German " we're using here?
That usage of " Negro " is new to me, Kraich. When I lived in the NYC area in the 90s, the sorta conservativeish black writer Stanley Crouch had a column in the New York Daily News and would refer to his people as " Negri ". He was still using it. I recall a non-fiction piece in Truman Capofe' s collection " Music For Chameleons " in which he profiled a black domestic who was rather old and she preferred the phrase " colored ", feeling it was perfectly fine. In the late Seventies.


But the particular usage of the word "negro" as a slur is comparatively recent.[/quote]


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kraftiekortie
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20 Feb 2018, 7:59 pm

In recent times, I've heard "negro" used as an insult by one black person towards another.

Something like: "You're such a negro---why do you keep hanging with this man" or something similar.



Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2018, 8:57 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...I meant that Crouch still used " Negro ", not " Negri ", that was my clumsy fingers and this little phone's keyboard. Crouch apparently still writes his News column, but a quick look found nothing more recent than 2014. I don't know whether the 21st Century NYDN would have, Standards & Practices-wise, allowed the continued use of " Negro ".
Malcolm X made use of this " Oreo cookie " sarcastic meaning of " Negro " so it's over 50 years old.





hgauer"]
ASS-P wrote:
......and changed its borders a great deal over the years - and post-World War II a great many German-identified people who.were driven out of other parts of Europe took up residence in Gernany - And, German-speaking Austria wa, for many centuries, the massive Austria-Hungarian Empire, with many many many other ethnic groups & languages...What is the definition if " German " we're using here?
That usage of " Negro " is new to me, Kraich. When I lived in the NYC area in the 90s, the sorta conservativeish black writer Stanley Crouch had a column in the New York Daily News and would refer to his people as " Negri ". He was still using it. I recall a non-fiction piece in Truman Capofe' s collection " Music For Chameleons " in which he profiled a black domestic who was rather old and she preferred the phrase " colored ", feeling it was perfectly fine. In the late Seventies.


But the particular usage of the word "negro" as a slur is comparatively recent.
[/quote]

That is correct, and is used by only a specific few.


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ASS-P
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20 Feb 2018, 9:29 pm

...The black culture meaning of " Negro " that both KK and I have overheard the use of, you mean? That is only used by a select few?


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Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!


Kraichgauer
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20 Feb 2018, 9:31 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...The black culture meaning of " Negro " that both KK and I have overheard the use of, you mean? That is only used by a select few?


No, meaning white nationalists.


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TwinRuler
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21 Feb 2018, 11:21 pm

Soon, it will the the 100th Anniversary of The Second World War. By then, many of Roosevelt's skeletons shall be let out of the closet.



Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 12:26 am

TwinRuler wrote:
Soon, it will the the 100th Anniversary of The Second World War. By then, many of Roosevelt's skeletons shall be let out of the closet.


FDR was by no means perfect. But I like to believe his accomplishments will always overshadow his faults.


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22 Feb 2018, 12:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Soon, it will the the 100th Anniversary of The Second World War. By then, many of Roosevelt's skeletons shall be let out of the closet.


FDR was by no means perfect. But I like to believe his accomplishments will always overshadow his faults.

Perhaps, you are right. But, I am not too sure.



Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 12:48 am

TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Soon, it will the the 100th Anniversary of The Second World War. By then, many of Roosevelt's skeletons shall be let out of the closet.


FDR was by no means perfect. But I like to believe his accomplishments will always overshadow his faults.

Perhaps, you are right. But, I am not too sure.



Nobody's legacy is without blemish, but not only did FDR help America during the Great Depression when unfettered capitalism almost destroyed the country, he also led us to victory against imperialist fascism, even though he didn't live to see the end of the war.


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22 Feb 2018, 12:59 am

he had a very sad end to a very challenging later adulthood.



Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 1:28 am

auntblabby wrote:
he had a very sad end to a very challenging later adulthood.


Yes, but he never gave into his polio which took the use of his legs. Despite his many flaws, he was still an indomitable human being.


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22 Feb 2018, 1:38 am

the latest historical "news" on him is that he shot himself in the head down in warm springs, Georgia, but this was hidden from the American public for decades.



Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 1:54 am

auntblabby wrote:
the latest historical "news" on him is that he shot himself in the head down in warm springs, Georgia, but this was hidden from the American public for decades.



I can't see that Iron Man doing himself in before the job with the war was done.
I wouldn't doubt that it's the far right that is responsible for such crap. They had been lying about him since day one of his first run for the PResidency.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2018, 11:05 am

It was plainly obvious that Roosevelt's health was declining.

Compare the pictures early in the war (i.e., 1941, 1942) with what he looked like during the Yalta Conference (which occurred shortly before he passed away).