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auntblabby
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19 Feb 2018, 10:07 pm

there is no evidence that the GOP wouldn't have done the same thing if not worse.



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19 Feb 2018, 10:35 pm

auntblabby wrote:
there is no evidence that the GOP wouldn't have done the same thing if not worse.


No, but there is evidence that the Donkeys did do what they did do... 8O
Unfortunately for you, you can only *speculate* about how nasty the Republican Party would have been, I'm afraid...<sigh> :mrgreen:

<hands over a chocolate bar for solace>



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19 Feb 2018, 10:41 pm

gobbles chocolate bar in one swallow Image



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19 Feb 2018, 11:38 pm

Darmok wrote:
Speaking of Franklin Roosevelt, that icon of the Democratic Party:

A Date That Should Live in Infamy
Never forget Executive Order 9066


On February 19, 1942 — seventy-four years ago today — Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. With the stroke of his pen, the man who had earlier snubbed Jesse Owens after the Berlin Olympics used his executive powers to order the imprisonment of over 100,000 persons of Japanese ancestry (as well as thousands of German and Italian ancestry) for the duration of World War II.

Most of the internees were natural-born American citizens, whose “crime” was having a parent or merely a grandparent with Japanese blood. It was an act of naked, aggressive racism that damaged people and families, including my own, for generations.


https://fee.org/articles/american-infamy/

Image


And I'm really sure Republicans rushed to the defense of those Japanese, German, and Italian Americans. :roll:


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20 Feb 2018, 12:21 am

...I read the first page of posts
Who is the " GC " you quote, AB?
The phrase " Negro" does tend to be considered offensive now, or at least old hat, but;
(1) The term is still preferred by some older black people, and so the term was used in government forms for the 2010 U. S. Census, and:
(2) however, " Negro" has. a slang meaning among black people of " fool/idiot/ person who makes too nice with the (white) power structure ".
And " Negro" was the correct/polite term for black persons about 60 years ago.
OP: Can you back up all these assertations about FOR? I often see that claim about Ggerman vs. British-descended folks in. America. But does that count just English- descended or Scotch, Welsh, and Irish- descended (All of Ireland was part of Great Britain for many centuries, the Northern area still is, and many ethnically Irish people live in Great Britain.) people?e
Likewise, since the united country we call " Germany " didn't come into existence till the 1860s/70s -


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Last edited by ASS-P on 20 Feb 2018, 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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20 Feb 2018, 12:30 am

ASS-P wrote:
...I read the first page of posts
Who is the " GC " you quote, AB?
The phrase " Negro" does tend to be considered offensive now, or at least old hat, but;
(1) The term is still preferred by some older black people, and so the term was used in government forms for the 2010 U. S. Census, and:
(2) however, " Negro" has. a slang meaning among black people of " fool/idiot/ person who makes too nice with the (white) power structure ".
And " Negro" was the correct/polite term for black persons about 60 years ago.
OP: Can you back up all these assertations about FOR? I often see that claim about Ggerman vs. British-descended folks in. America. But does that count just English- descended or Scotch, Welsh, and Irish- descended (All of Ireland was part of Great Britain for many centuries, the Northern area still is, and many ethnically Irish people live in Great Britain.) people?e
Likewise, since the united country we call " Germany " didn't come into existence till the 1860s/70s - :arrow:


Many white nationalists use the word "negro" because they can get away with it, while still implying the unmentionable word. In one forum, one such person called me a "negro lover" for my admiration for Barack Obama.


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20 Feb 2018, 12:30 am

ASS-P wrote:
...I read the first page of posts
Who is the " GC " you quote, AB?
The phrase " Negro" does tend to be considered offensive now, or at least old hat, but;
(1) The term is still preferred by some older black people, and so the term was used in government forms for the 2010 U. S. Census, and:
(2) however, " Negro" has. a slang meaning among black people of " fool/idiot/ person who makes too nice with the (white) power structure ".
And " Negro" was the correct/polite term for black persons about 60 years ago.
OP: Can you back up all these assertations about FOR? I often see that claim about Ggerman vs. British-descended folks in. America. But does that count just English- descended or Scotch, Welsh, and Irish- descended (All of Ireland was part of Great Britain for many centuries, the Northern area still is, and many ethnically Irish people live in Great Britain.) people?e
Likewise, since the united country we call " Germany " didn't come into existence till the 1860s/70s - :arrow:


Many white nationalists use the word "negro" because they can get away with it, while still implying the unmentionable word. In one forum, one such person called me a "negro lover" for my admiration for Barack Obama.


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20 Feb 2018, 1:26 am

......and changed its borders a great deal over the years - and post-World War II a great many German-identified people who.were driven out of other parts of Europe took up residence in Gernany - And, German-speaking Austria wa, for many centuries, the massive Austria-Hungarian Empire, with many many many other ethnic groups & languages...What is the definition if " German " we're using here?
That usage of " Negro " is new to me, Kraich. When I lived in the NYC area in the 90s, the sorta conservativeish black writer Stanley Crouch had a column in the New York Daily News and would refer to his people as " Negri ". He was still using it. I recall a non-fiction piece in Truman Capofe' s collection " Music For Chameleons " in which he profiled a black domestic who was rather old and she preferred the phrase " colored ", feeling it was perfectly fine. In the late Seventies.


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Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!


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20 Feb 2018, 1:41 am

TwinRuler wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It's clear you've thought about this at great length, but you haven't thought about it at all well. You've taken every bit of evidence that would disprove your bizarre and winding conspiracy and twisted it to fit. There's been no critical thinking, no evaluation of how likely it is. Why would Roosevelt care if white people became a unified voting bloc?

The last should be the most obvious. Franklin Delano Roosevelt liked to play different types of Whites against each other, in America. It was a divide and conquer scheme. And, of course, it worked like a charm. And, of course, as far as Sir Winston Churchill was concerned, any not 100% on the side of the British Empire over The Third Reich, was 100% on the side of The Third Reich over The British Empire. One could say that said British Empire, much like The Third Reich, was built upon racism and brutality. Still, Churchill knew Roosevelt would go along.

You see, if The United States of America dared to so much as stay out, declare itself neutral, then Canadian troops, and British troops stationed in Canada, would invade from the North. Do not think for a moment that the British would not do that. For they would have done just that. Look up, Plan Red, sometime. To do so, one would see that would have actually happened!


That's extremely looney. The last thing that the British and Canadians would want is to be fighting wars on two fronts. That would be complete suicide for their countries.



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20 Feb 2018, 1:43 am

ASS-P wrote:
......and changed its borders a great deal over the years - and post-World War II a great many German-identified people who.were driven out of other parts of Europe took up residence in Gernany - And, German-speaking Austria wa, for many centuries, the massive Austria-Hungarian Empire, with many many many other ethnic groups & languages...What is the definition if " German " we're using here?
That usage of " Negro " is new to me, Kraich. When I lived in the NYC area in the 90s, the sorta conservativeish black writer Stanley Crouch had a column in the New York Daily News and would refer to his people as " Negri ". He was still using it. I recall a non-fiction piece in Truman Capofe' s collection " Music For Chameleons " in which he profiled a black domestic who was rather old and she preferred the phrase " colored ", feeling it was perfectly fine. In the late Seventies.


But the particular usage of the word "negro" as a slur is comparatively recent.


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20 Feb 2018, 1:53 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the OP:
I myself am an American largely of German stock on both sides. My family has had a long memory, and I can honestly say, I had never heard occasion of German Americans being targeted with discrimination in the WWII era, particularly by the government. Now, the WWI era was very different, with German Americans being targeted as imagined fifth columnists - along with pacifists, labor radicals, leftists, and eventually blacks and Jews (it's no accident that the KKK was reborn in that political atmosphere) all under the aegis of the Wilson administration. But the period of time before, and of, the Second World War, the question of German American loyalty wasn't a concern, with the exception of a Pro-Nazi minority. Far from it, the Roosevelt administration purposely placed many generals with German names at the helm of the war effort. In fact, while Roosevelt is a Dutch name, the Roosevelt family themselves have a degree of German ancestry.

Do you deny that German Americans were sent to Prison Camps in the US, during The Second World War?


Of course there were, but these were comparatively few in comparison to the numbers of Japanese Americans sent to camps. Yes, it was an outrageous attack on their civil rights, no one can deny that. But as far as I can see, all of the German Americans interned were new immigrants off the boat, rather than the millions of Americans of German descent who had been born and raised in American culture. Even so, not every German immigrant was detained, as many such as the actor who played Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes had fled with his family from the Nazis, and had even served in the American army during the war.


Check out the Ni'ihau Incident in which two islanders of Japanese descent on the Hawaiian island of Ni'ihau jumped at the chance to help a Japanese pilot who crashed on Ni'ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That two people with minimal ties to Japan would suddenly commit treason against the US on the first day of fighting (war had yet to be declared) was a very good reason to be concerned. It made the imprisonment of Japanese Americans for the duration of the war look like a very good idea. With fears of an immediate attack on the continental US from Japan, the last thing we needed was a bunch of fifth columnists working behind the scenes to cripple the US.



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20 Feb 2018, 2:00 am

kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the OP:
I myself am an American largely of German stock on both sides. My family has had a long memory, and I can honestly say, I had never heard occasion of German Americans being targeted with discrimination in the WWII era, particularly by the government. Now, the WWI era was very different, with German Americans being targeted as imagined fifth columnists - along with pacifists, labor radicals, leftists, and eventually blacks and Jews (it's no accident that the KKK was reborn in that political atmosphere) all under the aegis of the Wilson administration. But the period of time before, and of, the Second World War, the question of German American loyalty wasn't a concern, with the exception of a Pro-Nazi minority. Far from it, the Roosevelt administration purposely placed many generals with German names at the helm of the war effort. In fact, while Roosevelt is a Dutch name, the Roosevelt family themselves have a degree of German ancestry.

Do you deny that German Americans were sent to Prison Camps in the US, during The Second World War?


Of course there were, but these were comparatively few in comparison to the numbers of Japanese Americans sent to camps. Yes, it was an outrageous attack on their civil rights, no one can deny that. But as far as I can see, all of the German Americans interned were new immigrants off the boat, rather than the millions of Americans of German descent who had been born and raised in American culture. Even so, not every German immigrant was detained, as many such as the actor who played Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes had fled with his family from the Nazis, and had even served in the American army during the war.


Check out the Ni'ihau Incident in which two islanders of Japanese descent on the Hawaiian island of Ni'ihau jumped at the chance to help a Japanese pilot who crashed on Ni'ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That two people with minimal ties to Japan would suddenly commit treason against the US on the first day of fighting (war had yet to be declared) was a very good reason to be concerned. It made the imprisonment of Japanese Americans for the duration of the war look like a very good idea. With fears of an immediate attack on the continental US from Japan, the last thing we needed was a bunch of fifth columnists working behind the scenes to cripple the US.


In that account you brought up, the operative term is: "war had yet to be declared." Besides, that was just two guys. As soon as hostilities were made official on our part, I seriously doubt Japanese Americans were going to display disloyalty. In fact, many young Japanese American men in those camps volunteered to serve in the US army.


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20 Feb 2018, 4:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the OP:
I myself am an American largely of German stock on both sides. My family has had a long memory, and I can honestly say, I had never heard occasion of German Americans being targeted with discrimination in the WWII era, particularly by the government. Now, the WWI era was very different, with German Americans being targeted as imagined fifth columnists - along with pacifists, labor radicals, leftists, and eventually blacks and Jews (it's no accident that the KKK was reborn in that political atmosphere) all under the aegis of the Wilson administration. But the period of time before, and of, the Second World War, the question of German American loyalty wasn't a concern, with the exception of a Pro-Nazi minority. Far from it, the Roosevelt administration purposely placed many generals with German names at the helm of the war effort. In fact, while Roosevelt is a Dutch name, the Roosevelt family themselves have a degree of German ancestry.

Do you deny that German Americans were sent to Prison Camps in the US, during The Second World War?


Of course there were, but these were comparatively few in comparison to the numbers of Japanese Americans sent to camps. Yes, it was an outrageous attack on their civil rights, no one can deny that. But as far as I can see, all of the German Americans interned were new immigrants off the boat, rather than the millions of Americans of German descent who had been born and raised in American culture. Even so, not every German immigrant was detained, as many such as the actor who played Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes had fled with his family from the Nazis, and had even served in the American army during the war.


Check out the Ni'ihau Incident in which two islanders of Japanese descent on the Hawaiian island of Ni'ihau jumped at the chance to help a Japanese pilot who crashed on Ni'ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That two people with minimal ties to Japan would suddenly commit treason against the US on the first day of fighting (war had yet to be declared) was a very good reason to be concerned. It made the imprisonment of Japanese Americans for the duration of the war look like a very good idea. With fears of an immediate attack on the continental US from Japan, the last thing we needed was a bunch of fifth columnists working behind the scenes to cripple the US.


In that account you brought up, the operative term is: "war had yet to be declared." Besides, that was just two guys. As soon as hostilities were made official on our part, I seriously doubt Japanese Americans were going to display disloyalty. In fact, many young Japanese American men in those camps volunteered to serve in the US army.


Do you really believe that someone who readily jumped in to help an enemy pilot who crashed after attacking this country is somehow going to have a complete change in attitude and be loyal to the US once we declared war?

The notion is especially absurd because their helping the enemy pilot continued after we declared war. They should have been executed for treason.



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20 Feb 2018, 4:32 am

TwinRuler wrote:
Roosevelt feared the German Americans, not so much because they would be more loyal to Hitler’s regime than to his own, but rather the opposite reason. Indeed, FDR would have loved nothing better than for all German Americans at the time to be clad as Brown Shirts. That way, they could be more identifiable, and hence easier to round up and send to Prison Camps. The truth of the matter is that it was precisely Roosevelt’s fear, or so I would suspect, that German Americans would anglicize their names, marry into Anglo Saxon families, and otherwise truly assimilate to The American Way of Life!

Of course, it is easy for me to envision, the son of a member of the German American Bund, guilt ridden about his parent’s lack of loyalty to the Rooseveltist regime, in America, going all out of his way to prove himself patriotic to America—or, at any rate, Loyal to The U.S. Federal Government—by not only going off to fight in Korea, but also to fight in Vietnam. Of course, the irony and absurdity, upon returning to America, said German American soldier (or, other military personnel) ended up beaten to death by Hippies, who refer to him as a Nazi and/or a Fascist, precisely because he fought the Communists in South East Asia.
Now, Commies and Nazis and Hippies are all very much hated, I would think, by sizable sections of the U.S. Population. Still, I digress. I may well pose the question, philosophically, what precisely is The American Way of Life, as it were? I started wondering, when I decided that Ethnic Pride, all forms of Ethnic Pride, express failure to assimilate to the American Way of Life; and that Self Hate, by contrast, is the Will to assimilate to said American Way of Life.
I suppose, that is precisely why the American Way of Life is being deliberately changed and altered, beyond all recognition, so as to make is nearly impossible for German Americans, who desire to forget all about their German heritage, to properly assimilate to it. Now look, however one may hate Germans, or for that matter German Americans, and I know many of you reading this do so, with all your hearts and souls; one must realize, that these changes and alterations could harm other forms of White people, too. They would offend, irony of ironies, the Anglo Saxons themselves.
And how exactly would said American Way of Life be altered beyond all recognition, in order to make sure that German Americans, who desire to forget all about their German heritage, never really can assimilate to said American Way of Life? By saying that Patriotism as such, not only patriotism to Germany but even patriotism to America itself—indeed, all forms of Patriotism—are bad and evil. Of course, they would implement the term Nationalism, rather than Patriotism, but I hope the readers get the idea! Deliberately creating absurd subcultures, not only Hippies, but also Beatniks, Greasers, Punkers, and even Trans—Gender types.
I would even go so far as to say that Racial Integration and Sexual Coeducation had the exact opposite goals as they ostensibly had. For instance, Racial Integration of Schools was never about lifting up the Negro to the level of Whites (whether German American or other), but rather about exposing the less intelligent Whites to the Negro subculture, . Moreover, Sexual Coeducation exists, not to make students ignore sexual differences, but rather perceive them more than ever. For don’t you see? Don’t you see? They anticipated, indeed hoped, for the certain types of misunderstandings that would lead precisely to the types of anti-Stalking and Sexual Harassment codes and ordinances that they would appear to need.

And why would Franklin Delano Roosevelt fear the merger of The German Americans and the Anglo Saxons into one group? I am sure many of you ridicule the notion, as absurd. Of course, what makes it all the more hypocritical on FDR’s part, is precisely because he is not altogether of English blood himself. Of course, he is partially English, but not entirely. Still, if the German Americans and Anglo Saxons really did intermarry, and become as of one, they would have formed a vast, Political Bloc. One which could very well work for the interest of Whites, particularly those with blue eyes.


How many German Americans were rounded up in World War II and put into camps? I know we put German citizens in camps, but I haven't heard of us doing so for German Americans.



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20 Feb 2018, 4:43 am

kokopelli wrote:
Do you really believe that someone who readily jumped in to help an enemy pilot who crashed after attacking this country is somehow going to have a complete change in attitude and be loyal to the US once we declared war?

The notion is especially absurd because their helping the enemy pilot continued after we declared war. They should have been executed for treason.

I don't know the circumstances but my first thought was they were saving a human being...
Did they hide him?
What indicated they were treasonous?



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20 Feb 2018, 12:04 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the OP:
I myself am an American largely of German stock on both sides. My family has had a long memory, and I can honestly say, I had never heard occasion of German Americans being targeted with discrimination in the WWII era, particularly by the government. Now, the WWI era was very different, with German Americans being targeted as imagined fifth columnists - along with pacifists, labor radicals, leftists, and eventually blacks and Jews (it's no accident that the KKK was reborn in that political atmosphere) all under the aegis of the Wilson administration. But the period of time before, and of, the Second World War, the question of German American loyalty wasn't a concern, with the exception of a Pro-Nazi minority. Far from it, the Roosevelt administration purposely placed many generals with German names at the helm of the war effort. In fact, while Roosevelt is a Dutch name, the Roosevelt family themselves have a degree of German ancestry.

Do you deny that German Americans were sent to Prison Camps in the US, during The Second World War?


Of course there were, but these were comparatively few in comparison to the numbers of Japanese Americans sent to camps. Yes, it was an outrageous attack on their civil rights, no one can deny that. But as far as I can see, all of the German Americans interned were new immigrants off the boat, rather than the millions of Americans of German descent who had been born and raised in American culture. Even so, not every German immigrant was detained, as many such as the actor who played Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes had fled with his family from the Nazis, and had even served in the American army during the war.


Check out the Ni'ihau Incident in which two islanders of Japanese descent on the Hawaiian island of Ni'ihau jumped at the chance to help a Japanese pilot who crashed on Ni'ihau following the attack on Pearl Harbor. That two people with minimal ties to Japan would suddenly commit treason against the US on the first day of fighting (war had yet to be declared) was a very good reason to be concerned. It made the imprisonment of Japanese Americans for the duration of the war look like a very good idea. With fears of an immediate attack on the continental US from Japan, the last thing we needed was a bunch of fifth columnists working behind the scenes to cripple the US.


In that account you brought up, the operative term is: "war had yet to be declared." Besides, that was just two guys. As soon as hostilities were made official on our part, I seriously doubt Japanese Americans were going to display disloyalty. In fact, many young Japanese American men in those camps volunteered to serve in the US army.


Do you really believe that someone who readily jumped in to help an enemy pilot who crashed after attacking this country is somehow going to have a complete change in attitude and be loyal to the US once we declared war?

The notion is especially absurd because their helping the enemy pilot continued after we declared war. They should have been executed for treason.


Even so, that was only two people. You can't judge a whole population's motives on the actions of two people.


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