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TwinRuler
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09 Feb 2018, 6:58 am

I always wonder! What about all of Stalin's victims? Indeed, if it were so very wrong and evil of Adolf Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate all the millions they did, why--pray tell-- was it not also wrong and evil for Joseph Stalin and his Commies to exterminate all the millions they did? I never quite understood that.



Pepe
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09 Feb 2018, 7:01 am

Yes...
It is interesting how so many people gloss over this historical fact...
Not sexy enough, I guess...



naturalplastic
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09 Feb 2018, 7:35 am

TwinRuler wrote:
I always wonder! What about all of Stalin's victims? Indeed, if it were so very wrong and evil of Adolf Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate all the millions they did, why--pray tell-- was it not also wrong and evil for Joseph Stalin and his Commies to exterminate all the millions they did? I never quite understood that.


So let me get this straight.

You are telling us that voices in your head told you that "it was alright for Stalin to murder millions"? Has to be voices in your head because I have never heard any real person ever say that.

The solution is obvious.

Just get a shrink prescribe to you the right head meds, and for you to take them. Then you wont hear those, nor any other, voices in your head again! :lol:



timf
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09 Feb 2018, 8:29 am

was it not also wrong and evil for Joseph Stalin and his Commies to exterminate all the millions they did?

The impression you have that there is a implicit acceptance of Stalin in contrast to the condemnation of Hitler is correct. However, your impression is not formed by an accurate reflection of what people generally think. It is formed by the various media channels we are all exposed to.

Media bias in nothing new. The reason WWII was a “good” war but Korea and Viet Nam were “bad” wars was because in WWII we were helping communism (the Soviet Union) and in Korea and Viet Nam we were fighting against communism.

To understand this pervasive and widespread favorable view of communism (in all its forms), it can help to see the influence of universities from the progressive era through the present time. They have served to shift the established religion in the United States from Christianity to the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular).

One can understand the anxiety created by surrendering a view of the world that has God providentially taking care of us to a view that everything in the universe is random and chaotic. In essence the person who has lost a faith in God sees in a potentially dangerous universe the need for one. And seeing himself as the only one available for the job, seeks to collectivize his neighbors so that an illusion of control can be achieved to alleviate his anxiety.

Communism, socialism, or collectivism of any kind is essential to creating and sustaining a view that man is in control of his environment. It is rather ironic that National “Socialism” was targeted as the great evil when other collectivist enterprises (like Mao and Stalin) have equally or greater crimes.

However reputations are establish by those who control the channels of information. These channels do not serve truth. Truth is an absolute that eventually points to God. Relativism is essential to sustain the construct that man is capable of and presently running the universe.

The reason that you have the impression that people are favorably inclined to Stalin while dis-favorably inclined to Hitler is that it reflects the desires and perspectives of those who have rejected the construct of God in favor of the construct of man. Things like truth, consistency, and accuracy are all considered variable (relative) to the larger purpose of advancing collectivism.

Here is another interesting subject for consideration. Many conservatives are wedded to the idea that capitalism is the opposite of communism. They see capitalism as equal to the concept of the free market. One might ask if capitalism (the formation of an economic collective) might not be better seen as a collective enterprise whose interests are hindered by a free market and eventually will grow in size to manipulate, control, and achieve merger with other collective enterprises such as government.



kraftiekortie
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09 Feb 2018, 10:56 am

Godammit—Stalin and Hitler were the same animal—genocidal maniacs.

No reputable historian would dispute that.

Hitler was placed in the forefront because we needed the USSR as an ally during the Second World War. Stalin’s atrocities were placed in the background. A most unfortunate mistake.

But to make Hitler “less” of a genocidal maniac because he killed 20 million people, rather than 30 million people,is a notion which is ridiculous beyond words.



Pepe
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09 Feb 2018, 2:16 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Godammit—Stalin and Hitler were the same animal—genocidal maniacs.

No reputable historian would dispute that.

Hitler was placed in the forefront because we needed the USSR as an ally during the Second World War. Stalin’s atrocities were placed in the background. A most unfortunate mistake.

But to make Hitler “less” of a genocidal maniac because he killed 20 million people, rather than 30 million people,is a notion which is ridiculous beyond words.


"Politics makes strange bed fellows..."
'Morality' is a disposable commodity only embraced when it is convenient...

The targeting of civilian refugee centres...
The use of firestorms...
The use of atomic bombs...
Eisenhower's death camps...
The Morgenthau Plan...
Operation Paperclip...

How uncomfortable some must have been when frolicking in the daisy meadow with the bear deceptively dressed in a pink tutu, whilst observing the bear daintily munching on human remains...

Some must have found it somewhat difficult to avert their eyes from the seeming incongruity of the marriage between the stalwart of (flexible) morality of the west with the insatiable perverse power lust of the eastern giant...

But such is life...
Such is politics...meh... 8)



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10 Feb 2018, 2:50 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Godammit—Stalin and Hitler were the same animal—genocidal maniacs.

No reputable historian would dispute that.

Hitler was placed in the forefront because we needed the USSR as an ally during the Second World War. Stalin’s atrocities were placed in the background. A most unfortunate mistake.

But to make Hitler “less” of a genocidal maniac because he killed 20 million people, rather than 30 million people,is a notion which is ridiculous beyond words.


As usual my friend, you are very much right. 8)


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Pepe
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10 Feb 2018, 5:08 am

timf wrote:


Media bias in nothing new. The reason WWII was a “good” war but Korea and Viet Nam were “bad” wars was because in WWII we were helping communism (the Soviet Union) and in Korea and Viet Nam we were fighting against communism.


Are you saying the media is controlled by manipulative puppet masters with their hidden agenda, independant of the establishment?



TwinRuler
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10 Feb 2018, 3:48 pm

timf wrote:
was it not also wrong and evil for Joseph Stalin and his Commies to exterminate all the millions they did?

The impression you have that there is a implicit acceptance of Stalin in contrast to the condemnation of Hitler is correct. However, your impression is not formed by an accurate reflection of what people generally think. It is formed by the various media channels we are all exposed to.

Media bias in nothing new. The reason WWII was a “good” war but Korea and Viet Nam were “bad” wars was because in WWII we were helping communism (the Soviet Union) and in Korea and Viet Nam we were fighting against communism.

To understand this pervasive and widespread favorable view of communism (in all its forms), it can help to see the influence of universities from the progressive era through the present time. They have served to shift the established religion in the United States from Christianity to the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular).

One can understand the anxiety created by surrendering a view of the world that has God providentially taking care of us to a view that everything in the universe is random and chaotic. In essence the person who has lost a faith in God sees in a potentially dangerous universe the need for one. And seeing himself as the only one available for the job, seeks to collectivize his neighbors so that an illusion of control can be achieved to alleviate his anxiety.

Communism, socialism, or collectivism of any kind is essential to creating and sustaining a view that man is in control of his environment. It is rather ironic that National “Socialism” was targeted as the great evil when other collectivist enterprises (like Mao and Stalin) have equally or greater crimes.

However reputations are establish by those who control the channels of information. These channels do not serve truth. Truth is an absolute that eventually points to God. Relativism is essential to sustain the construct that man is capable of and presently running the universe.

The reason that you have the impression that people are favorably inclined to Stalin while dis-favorably inclined to Hitler is that it reflects the desires and perspectives of those who have rejected the construct of God in favor of the construct of man. Things like truth, consistency, and accuracy are all considered variable (relative) to the larger purpose of advancing collectivism.

Here is another interesting subject for consideration. Many conservatives are wedded to the idea that capitalism is the opposite of communism. They see capitalism as equal to the concept of the free market. One might ask if capitalism (the formation of an economic collective) might not be better seen as a collective enterprise whose interests are hindered by a free market and eventually will grow in size to manipulate, control, and achieve merger with other collective enterprises such as government.

Very intriguing.
Perhaps, the Communists pretend to be egalitarian. Something which Fascists, especially Nazis, never do. I also suspect that the British Empire had some fun, playing the Russians and Germans against each other from time to time.



kraftiekortie
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10 Feb 2018, 5:09 pm

That's the ideal of Communism: Egalitarianism. Sort of the "end-stage" of a Marxist-like process.

Alas, "pure" Communism can never happen.

The nature of all living creatures, not just man, is for there to be "somebody above somebody else.'



Pepe
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10 Feb 2018, 5:46 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
That's the premise of Communism: Egalitarianism.

Alas, "pure" Communism can never happen.

The nature of all living creatures, not just man, is for there to be "somebody above somebody else.'


“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” ...
Egalitarian Communism, what a crock...<chuckle>

Also:
Quote:
The second paragraph of the United States Declaration of Independence starts as follows: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.


Quote:
Thomas Jefferson first used the phrase in the U.S. Declaration of Independence, which he penned in 1776 during the beginning of the American Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal

Quote:
The Emancipation Proclamation, or Proclamation 95, was a presidential proclamation and executive order issued by President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863. It changed the federal legal status of more than 3 million enslaved people in the designated areas of the South from slave to free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

WTF?
It took 87 years from conception to implementation?

How uncomfortable some must have been to frolic in the cotton fields with those who disregarded the most profound principle of American democracy... 8O

And I won't mention this:
Quote:
The United States. No “truth commission” or “holocaust memorial” has ever been undertaken by the U.S. to acknowledge—let alone compensate for—the historical violence against Native Peoples otherwise known as Native American genocide.

In fact, the U.S. government has done more to acknowledge its role in other countries’ genocides than to acknowledge Native American genocide.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/n ... holocaust/

Oh dear...
I just did... :mrgreen:

<walks away in confusion>
<muttering under breath...hypocrisy...hypocrisy...and hypocrisy...>



TwinRuler
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10 Feb 2018, 6:02 pm

America never won against any Communist country. They defeated the Nazis, and other Fascists, but they never defeated Communism. Mind you, The Soviet Union fell apart on its own. More interestingly, The People's Republic of China, supposedly Communist, is supplying America, and the rest of the West, with cheap goods.



TwinRuler
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18 Feb 2018, 3:32 am

:D Once one realizes just how much the Soviet Union, of Stalin, resembled the Third Reich, of Hitler, one comes to the firm realization that the nostalgia, for The Second World War, exhibited by "Americans" is more than a bit of a sick joke. They only destroyed one of Europe's most infamous tyrannies, namely Nazi Germany, to make life easier for the other of Europe's most infamous tyrannies, namely Commie Russia.



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18 Feb 2018, 3:40 am

"History is bunk." [henry ford]



Kiprobalhato
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18 Feb 2018, 3:42 am

TwinRuler wrote:
Indeed, if it were so very wrong and evil of Adolf Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate all the millions they did, why--pray tell-- was it not also wrong and evil for Joseph Stalin and his Commies to exterminate all the millions they did?



literally nobody is saying otherwise, stop making these threads.


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