For those here who think anything of me at all

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RainbowUnion
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20 Feb 2018, 2:36 pm

Ok, there is a lot more to my job than just knowing about rocks. That's like saying all a biologist knows about is cells or DNA. In fact, some biologists don't even study cells or DNA, at least not directly.

GF, what you are is an aspiring NT. I'm not, any more than I am an aspiring heterosexual. I don't view either as a condition that I'd like to cure, its not a cold or the flu. I believe that all people should be accepted for how they are. If we are disabled, its only because we have to live in a world where 99% of the people are not like us.

Whats my view of you? Quite frankly a Jew for Hitler. Or a black for the 1960s South.


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"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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20 Feb 2018, 3:55 pm

Id agree with this here:


We Don’t Need a Cure for Autism – And Pushing One Is Really Messed Up

June 11, 2015 by Creigh Farinas and Caley Farinas



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A young child holds up a chalkboard that reads "AUTISM" in colorful letters
Source: iStock

I used to want to cure autistic people.

I babysat for an autism support group and listened pityingly as parents described how hard it was to have a child on the spectrum – thinking nothing of the fact that those children were right there listening.

I begged my mom to take my autistic sister, Caley, and me to an autism cure event, ignoring the fact that my sister herself wasn’t interested in doing so.

Later, I went still further and led a fundraiser at my high school to raise hundreds of dollars for Autism Speaks, an organization that pushes for a cure for autism.

As the sibling of an autistic person, I felt it was my duty to do these things to show my support for her and others like her.

Here’s the thing, though: Many autistic people don’t actually want a cure.

More heartbreakingly, I didn’t realize that my own sister felt that way, too – that as I was proudly marching to help her, she was right there silently wishing that I wasn’t.

It was incredibly insensitive, and even ableist, of me to advocate for her without first checking with her to see if she wanted my advocacy.

And what I would later learn is that the most critical part of being an ally is prioritizing the voices of the marginalized, like Caley’s, instead of overwriting their words and beliefs with our own assumptions.

If you’re advocating for an autism cure, you’re making the same mistake that I once was.

I know it’s because you care about the autistic person in your life and want to make their life as easy as possible. But the best way to support autistic people is to listen to them, not assimilate them.

This goes against almost everything we’ve been socialized to believe, so I want to really unpack and address the following five objections that many people who support a cure for autism assert.

I can only hope that if you do harbor these beliefs, you’ll be open to considering this information and changing your position, as I once did.

1. Autistic People Are Suffering and Need a Cure

It is true that a lot of autistic people suffer.

But what they suffer from is not so much being autistic as living in a society that is not friendly to autistic people.

A society that frowns upon people wearing sunglasses and earplugs indoors despite their sensory differences.

A society where someone flapping their hands will be stared at and pitied, or told “quiet hands!” rather than be seen for the joy they’re exhibiting.

A society where, in order to get a job, you first have to get your social skills tested in an interview.

A society in which forms of communication other than spoken ones are often ignored and thought of as lesser.

A society where different means incompetent and neurodiversity is a foreign concept.

The people who enforce these beliefs are not only telling autistic people that their very existence is wrong, but they are participating in oppression.

Moreover, the idea of curing autism isn’t as simple as it seems from the outside. Autism is a developmental disorder, meaning people on the spectrum are autistic their whole lives.

They know no other way of being – it’s part of who they are.

Autism isn’t something that you can get rid of it without changing who a person is at their core. Autism is a neurological difference that inherently shapes an autistic person’s identity, perspectives, dreams, and desires.

As my sister put it: “Whenever you tell an autistic person they should be cured, you’re telling them that they shouldn’t be them.”

Unsurprisingly, hearing that is hurtful, and constantly getting these messages from society is enough to pulverize many autistic people’s concepts of self-worth.

2. But What About the Autistic People Who Can’t Communicate and Are Trapped in Their Own Worlds?

Okay, there are a couple of big assumptions I need to address here.

As a general rule, everyone communicates, even non-speaking autistic people. Because behavior is communication.

When an autistic child I was caring for threw himself to the ground after I tried to take him into the waiting room, he didn’t use words. But he definitely communicated that he did not want to go in that room.

Everyone communicates – they just don’t always speak to do so. But even people who speak in atypical ways, like by applying lines from a television show to communicate what they want in real life, often have their communication overlooked.

Our society expects everyone to communicate in the same way that we do, and those who don’t are ignored.

Perhaps the problem isn’t with autistic people’s communication, but with those who refuse to acknowledge what they’re saying.

The other assumption is that autistic people are trapped in their own worlds.

Yes, many autistic people report having imaginary worlds, but that isn’t a bad thing. It’s an escape from a society that is often not friendly to them and a world that can be – even to the people in the neurotypical majority – scary or just plain boring some times.

And seeing the beauty in parts of the world that most of us don’t even notice, like the shimmering dust motes that dance through the air or the mesmerizing spin of fan blades overhead, isn’t a bad thing either.

Those of us who are neurotypical could learn something from that.

What’s more, autistic people do not magically inhabit a different world. They’re right here on Earth, with you and me, and to act like they’re not is not only incorrect, it’s hurtful.

And to address the core argument, there’s this assumption that because they’re different from us in ways most neurotypical people could not imagine being, so called “low functioning” non-speaking autistic people must want a cure.

But—well—that’s not the case.

People all over the spectrum can live happy, worthy lives.

There are some really great non-speaking autistic bloggers who write about their lives, which are just as human and filled with ups and downs as anyone else’s. And even people who can’t type can communicate their utter joy through flapping hands and jumping feet.

In short, autistic people all over the spectrum can be happy people.

And, if we as a society are doing our job right, they are just as capable for loving themselves for who they are as anyone else.

3. But Shouldn’t We Be Pushing for a Cure on Behalf of Those Who Do Want One?





People keep misunderstanding this critical point, but there is no cure for autism.

It doesn’t exist!

No matter how much money is poured into it, it doesn’t seem like it’s going to exist any time soon – at least not in the form that people imagine.

Looking at research, it’s apparent that we’re more likely to see a preventative measure than a magic “cure” pill.

The leading candidate is a genetic screening in-utero, in which case, as with Down Syndrome, we could see an option for an autism “cure” through abortion of fetuses suspected to have autism.

And fundraising for this – the only current viable option – rather than fundraising to help families, sounds a lot like eugenics to me – every person on the spectrum’s worst nightmare.

The second side of this problem is that there are reasons many autistic people want cures, and those reasons are societal in nature.

Throughout most autistic people’s lives they have been told that they are lesser.

They’ve been taken to fundraisers to raise money to “fix” them, their parents talk about what a burden they are right in front of them, and when they dare to be themselves in public, they’re greeted with disapproving stares.

If you lived this life, wouldn’t you want to be cured of that thing that you’ve been told all your life that you need to be cured of?

For some autistic people, the answer is yes. But the realistic solution, which already exists, is not an imaginary cure, but helping them love and accept themselves for who they are.

It’s helping them see the strengths being autistic provides, rather than only hammering the weaknesses down their throats.

In short, acceptance is the cure.

4. But Donating Money Towards Research for a Cure Isn’t Harmful, Right?

Unfortunately, it is harmful.

The mere fact that others find autistic people’s lives so faulty that they raise money for a cure is hurtful to a lot of people on the spectrum.

More than that, money donated towards prevention/cures is money that doesn’t go to help the autistic people already here.

Autism Speaks is a great example of this dilemma. So much of their budget goes to cure/cause related research (followed closely by fundraising and advertising, which is 43% of their budget) that only 4% of their money goes towards services for families of autistic people, and only 0.25% of their research budget goes towards research to benefit autistic adults.

Given that cure research isn’t even wanted by many autistic people and much-needed services for adults on the spectrum go underfunded, is this harmful dynamic really something you want to contribute to?

5. What About Pushing to Find the Cause of Autism? That’s Not Harmful

Wrong – for multiple reasons.

For one thing, you’ve got the same problem as in #4 – money that goes towards finding the cause of autism is money that doesn’t go resources to help the autistic people already here.

Moreover, generally the reason people pour time/money/energy into looking for a cause is to find a cure and prevent autism.

That sends the exact same message to the people it’s intended to help – that they are lesser and their existence must be prevented at all costs.

So What’s an Autism Ally to Do?

1. Don’t Donate Money Towards Cure, Cause, and Prevention Organizations







Don’t despair – there are loads of organizations you can donate to that actually do focus on services and education to benefit autistic adults and children alike.

The Autistic Self Advocacy Network is a great example of one such organization. Best of all, unlike most autism organizations, this one is led by autistic people themselves and does a far better job of representing their interests as a result.

Another great organization is The Arc/The Autism NOW Center, which prioritizes autistic individuals’ needs, rather than what our society thinks they need.

So the next time you feel the inclination to walk and raise money to help autistic people, you can walk with pride if you’re supporting one of those groups.

2. Work to Make Society More Autism-Friendly

If you’re part of a business, some autism organizations offer the ability to train your business in working with people on the spectrum.

Initiatives like this do a great job of breaking down the societal barriers autistic people face.

Check into your state or country’s autism organizations or local autism support group to see what’s available in your area for this.

Changing our society doesn’t have to require big steps.

Simply greeting someone flapping their hands with a smile rather than a stare and understanding instead of chiding when they don’t make eye contact are enough to make an impact in of themselves.

3. Educate Yourself Around Autism

Autistikids is a great website I helped edit that connects readers to the words of autistic adults explaining autism. If you prefer video, the Ask an Autistic series on YouTube is highly informative.

If you’re a parent or relative of a child on the autism spectrum, you’re in a unique position to shape how your child thinks about being autistic.

You can help make it so that, rather than being ashamed of being ‘defective’ and wishing for a cure that doesn’t exist, your child loves themselves for who they are.

There are lots of great resources to help you do this – I love the book Different Like Me: My Book of Autism Heroes because it helps children feel proud of their neurology.

There are also websites like Autism Spectrum Explained for Kids (which I created) for helping children on the spectrum and siblings understand autism in a self-esteem enhancing way.

Letters to Autistic Kids is another great initiative where autistic kids can read letters of support from other autistic people.

Finally, connecting your autistic child to an autistic peer or mentor, such as through pen-paling, is a wonderful way to help them appreciate their neurology.

***

These are just a small sampling of ways you can be an ally and make the world a better place for autistic people.

If we do our job right with all of these things, not a single autistic person will ever have to want a cure for who they are again.


_________________
"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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20 Feb 2018, 11:46 pm

Social ineptitude will never be socially acceptable.

My life is infinitely better for treating my ASD symptoms via diet, supplements, & probiotics.

I don’t care if you are perfectly content with how you are and aren’t interested in changing.

I’m not going to stop sharing my story & the simple fact that everything in my life is better for having learned and done what I have because you don’t think it’s an ailment that ought to be treated. IMO, there are countless people on the spectrum who may live happier, healthier, lives if they get their symptoms under control as I have. My message is for them. You do you all you want, it’s not going to change what I do one bit.


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23 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Social ineptitude will never be socially acceptable.

My life is infinitely better for treating my ASD symptoms via diet, supplements, & probiotics.

I don’t care if you are perfectly content with how you are and aren’t interested in changing.

I’m not going to stop sharing my story & the simple fact that everything in my life is better for having learned and done what I have because you don’t think it’s an ailment that ought to be treated. IMO, there are countless people on the spectrum who may live happier, healthier, lives if they get their symptoms under control as I have. My message is for them. You do you all you want, it’s not going to change what I do one bit.


Most folks wont be helped by your "cure" or whatever, because I hate to tell you this but you are dead wrong that gut bacteria cause autism. Dr Who mentioned that your "evidence" would never be accepted by any scientist, and he was right on that.

I am an advocate for what I call autism culture, for lack of a better term. And genocide is not just defined by the United Nations as physical destruction of a race of people. Included in the definition is destruction of culture, religion, personal identity, and etc. Those who hate us want precisely that.


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"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 3:57 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Social ineptitude will never be socially acceptable.

My life is infinitely better for treating my ASD symptoms via diet, supplements, & probiotics.

I don’t care if you are perfectly content with how you are and aren’t interested in changing.

I’m not going to stop sharing my story & the simple fact that everything in my life is better for having learned and done what I have because you don’t think it’s an ailment that ought to be treated. IMO, there are countless people on the spectrum who may live happier, healthier, lives if they get their symptoms under control as I have. My message is for them. You do you all you want, it’s not going to change what I do one bit.


Most folks wont be helped by your "cure" or whatever, because I hate to tell you this but you are dead wrong that gut bacteria cause autism. Dr Who mentioned that your "evidence" would never be accepted by any scientist, and he was right on that.

I am an advocate for what I call autism culture, for lack of a better term. And genocide is not just defined by the United Nations as physical destruction of a race of people. Included in the definition is destruction of culture, religion, personal identity, and etc. Those who hate us want precisely that.


I am not the only person on the planet who's alleviated ASD symptoms by altering intestinal flora. It's also being studied by more than one research team - probiotic therapies etc.

You don't get it. People don't "hate" autistics. It's simply that many of the behaviours of people lacking in social awareness & abilities are downright unacceptable to others and society in general. Being much more intuitively social & socially connected has made my life better by leaps and bounds. You can shout "genocide of socially unacceptable behaviour," all you want, and the rest of the world will just roll their collective eyes and think "uh, okay buddy.. we didn't want to interact with you already because we think you're rude & weird, but now we don't want anything to do with you because we also think you're crazy."

It never ceases to amaze me when people on here think that it's somehow going to be easier, better, and more effective to start some sort of movement to change the entire world's thoughts about them instead of just working on themselves in order to improve their ability to fit in with the rest of the world. Bizarre!


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23 Feb 2018, 4:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Social ineptitude will never be socially acceptable.

My life is infinitely better for treating my ASD symptoms via diet, supplements, & probiotics.

I don’t care if you are perfectly content with how you are and aren’t interested in changing.

I’m not going to stop sharing my story & the simple fact that everything in my life is better for having learned and done what I have because you don’t think it’s an ailment that ought to be treated. IMO, there are countless people on the spectrum who may live happier, healthier, lives if they get their symptoms under control as I have. My message is for them. You do you all you want, it’s not going to change what I do one bit.


Most folks wont be helped by your "cure" or whatever, because I hate to tell you this but you are dead wrong that gut bacteria cause autism. Dr Who mentioned that your "evidence" would never be accepted by any scientist, and he was right on that.

I am an advocate for what I call autism culture, for lack of a better term. And genocide is not just defined by the United Nations as physical destruction of a race of people. Included in the definition is destruction of culture, religion, personal identity, and etc. Those who hate us want precisely that.


I am not the only person on the planet who's alleviated ASD symptoms by altering intestinal flora. It's also being studied by more than one research team - probiotic therapies etc.

You don't get it. People don't "hate" autistics. It's simply that many of the behaviours of people lacking in social awareness & abilities are downright unacceptable to others and society in general. Being much more intuitively social & socially connected has made my life better by leaps and bounds. You can shout "genocide of socially unacceptable behaviour," all you want, and the rest of the world will just roll their collective eyes and think "uh, okay buddy.. we didn't want to interact with you already because we think you're rude & weird, but now we don't want anything to do with you because we also think you're crazy."

It never ceases to amaze me when people on here think that it's somehow going to be easier, better, and more effective to start some sort of movement to change the entire world's thoughts about them instead of just working on themselves in order to improve their ability to fit in with the rest of the world. Bizarre!


And my point is that we shouldn't have to change how we are, any more than I should have to be attracted to women. All people should be accepted for how they are, and not how others imagine them to be. And for most on the spectrum, those changes are simply an impossibility and unreasonable to ask for. Which is why I'm hoping for more autistics in the world, because only by increasing numbers will things get better. You cant ignore us, you cant pigeon hole us, diversity is the new normal, live with it.

What, do you want blacks to engage in some treatment to whiten their skin? In the USA, blacks are still despised by many. That's a fact. Over policed, still discriminated against, all because of facts of biology that can not be changed by them, and shouldn't. And they don't hate who they are, their African heritage and etc, quite the opposite they embrace it and love it, as well they should. And yes, they have good reason to *HATE* white society and white America in general, as do we have good reason to hate NT society. I'm just hoping I make it to roughly 2050, when the USA will be a majority non white country, to see how the supporters of the Trumpster Fire will take it.


_________________
"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 4:35 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
And my point is that we shouldn't have to change how we are, any more than I should have to be attracted to women. All people should be accepted for how they are, and not how others imagine them to be. And for most on the spectrum, those changes are simply an impossibility and unreasonable to ask for. Which is why I'm hoping for more autistics in the world, because only by increasing numbers will things get better. You cant ignore us, you cant pigeon hole us, diversity is the new normal, live with it.

What, do you want blacks to engage in some treatment to whiten their skin? In the USA, blacks are still despised by many. That's a fact. Over policed, still discriminated against, all because of facts of biology that can not be changed by them, and shouldn't. And they don't hate who they are, their African heritage and etc, quite the opposite they embrace it and love it, as well they should. And yes, they have good reason to *HATE* white society and white America in general, as do we have good reason to hate NT society. I'm just hoping I make it to roughly 2050, when the USA will be a majority non white country, to see how the supporters of the Trumpster Fire will take it.


How can you suggest in one breath that you shouldn't have to be attracted to women, and in the next suggest that all people should be accepted how they are? You don't accept women as sexually attractive to you. It's different, but along the same lines that there are some behaviours people are accepting of, and others they are not. It's that simple, really. You're Never-in-a-million-years going to convince over 7 Billion people to be universally accepting of socially unacceptable behaviour.

Really? An impossibility and unreasonable to ask for? There have been many methods to treat/counsel ASD symptoms via learning & practice etc long before I figured out how to do what I have. Anyone on the spectrum who Wants to improve Can do so with effort & energy. People read books, go to counselling, learn from videos, learn from friends, take various medications, do things I choose to do for myself etc etc there are many paths to improving one's social abilities IF people have the will & desire to follow through and do it for themselves instead of complaining about it.

Diversity is fine. Just don't expect when you say or do something that's socially unacceptable that it's going to be perceived as anything but rude and be a turnoff for most people around you. I'm not perfect. I'm not NT. I still make mistakes that vary with my health/diet etc & have so suffer the real world consequences of them. That's life. BUT, I still make an effort and Try to do the very best I can vs. having some delusional expectation that I can carry on saying & doing unacceptable things with the expectation of universal acceptance. That's just laughable.

Having black skin is not a disorder that needs to be treated so your comparison is ridiculous. Autism Spectrum Disorder is. Racial oppression is NOT even remotely comparable to people being unaccepting of socially awkward, rude, or unacceptable language or actions. People won't accept such social ineptness from any race of person as ASD as a disorder can affect anyone. Further, ASD is known as an "invisible disability," because there aren't obvious outward signs of it so no one is judging you on sight as being autistic like a racist person might judge a black man. You trying to attach the plight of ASD people to the centuries, or eons, old history of racial oppression is a bit of a slap in the face to people of colour, IMO.


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23 Feb 2018, 4:42 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
And my point is that we shouldn't have to change how we are, any more than I should have to be attracted to women. All people should be accepted for how they are, and not how others imagine them to be. And for most on the spectrum, those changes are simply an impossibility and unreasonable to ask for. Which is why I'm hoping for more autistics in the world, because only by increasing numbers will things get better. You cant ignore us, you cant pigeon hole us, diversity is the new normal, live with it.

What, do you want blacks to engage in some treatment to whiten their skin? In the USA, blacks are still despised by many. That's a fact. Over policed, still discriminated against, all because of facts of biology that can not be changed by them, and shouldn't. And they don't hate who they are, their African heritage and etc, quite the opposite they embrace it and love it, as well they should. And yes, they have good reason to *HATE* white society and white America in general, as do we have good reason to hate NT society. I'm just hoping I make it to roughly 2050, when the USA will be a majority non white country, to see how the supporters of the Trumpster Fire will take it.


How can you suggest in one breath that you shouldn't have to be attracted to women, and in the next suggest that all people should be accepted how they are? You don't accept women as sexually attractive to you. It's different, but along the same lines that there are some behaviours people are accepting of, and others they are not. It's that simple, really. You're Never-in-a-million-years going to convince over 7 Billion people to be universally accepting of socially unacceptable behaviour.

Really? An impossibility and unreasonable to ask for? There have been many methods to treat/counsel ASD symptoms via learning & practice etc long before I figured out how to do what I have. Anyone on the spectrum who Wants to improve Can do so with effort & energy. People read books, go to counselling, learn from videos, learn from friends, take various medications, do things I choose to do for myself etc etc there are many paths to improving one's social abilities IF people have the will & desire to follow through and do it for themselves instead of complaining about it.

Diversity is fine. Just don't expect when you say or do something that's socially unacceptable that it's going to be perceived as anything but rude and be a turnoff for most people around you. I'm not perfect. I'm not NT. I still make mistakes that vary with my health/diet etc & have so suffer the real world consequences of them. That's life. BUT, I still make an effort and Try to do the very best I can vs. having some delusional expectation that I can carry on saying & doing unacceptable things with the expectation of universal acceptance. That's just laughable.

Having black skin is not a disorder that needs to be treated so your comparison is ridiculous. Autism Spectrum Disorder is. Racial oppression is NOT even remotely comparable to people being unaccepting of socially awkward, rude, or unacceptable language or actions. People won't accept such social ineptness from any race of person as ASD as a disorder can affect anyone. Further, ASD is known as an "invisible disability," because there aren't obvious outward signs of it so no one is judging you on sight as being autistic like a racist person might judge a black man. You trying to attach the plight of ASD people to the centuries, or eons, old history of racial oppression is a bit of a slap in the face to people of colour, IMO.


I object to calling it a disorder, and my point is that its caused by biology, same as the color of ones skin. Its not a choice, any more than being black is. I cant wait for this idea of "normal" to be crushed and swept away, just hope I'm still around to enjoy it.


_________________
"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 4:48 pm

I'd also add that having a black skin IS effectively a social disability in the USA, simply because of how they are treated by the white founded institutions. A social experiment was done in which there were two job seekers, one white, and the other black. The white admitted to doing 18 months imprisonment for heroin possession, the black had a clean record. What they found was that the white got more calls back.


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"It must be understood, that neither by word nor deed had I given Fortunato cause to doubt my good-will. I continued as was my wont, to smile in his face, and he did not perceive that my smile was at the thought of his immolation."

Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
I object to calling it a disorder, and my point is that its caused by biology, same as the color of ones skin. Its not a choice, any more than being black is. I cant wait for this idea of "normal" to be crushed and swept away, just hope I'm still around to enjoy it.


Good thing you're not a doctor nor making any sort of important decisions about health/medicine or societal policies that pertain to such things.

Doesn't matter if you object to calling it a disorder. It still is one. And yes it's caused by biology... but so is influenza, and cancer, and diabetes etc & so on - should we stop treating all ailments and just let them run their course & kill off whoever they kill?

No one said it was a choice. But leaving it untreated or not learning & practicing everything you can about the social world is.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the idea of "normal," will always exist as it always has. Most people fall into the "normal," range of humans & their behaviour. Then there are the "abnormal," statistical outliers like ourselves who have to make the most of this life as best we can amongst our NT counterparts.

It's perfectly fine to be self accepting and not want to learn or do anything to change the way you interact with the world; just don't complain about others not accepting your quirks and differences as willingly as you do.


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23 Feb 2018, 4:51 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
I'd also add that having a black skin IS effectively a social disability in the USA, simply because of how they are treated by the white founded institutions. A social experiment was done in which there were two job seekers, one white, and the other black. The white admitted to doing 18 months imprisonment for heroin possession, the black had a clean record. What they found was that the white got more calls back.


Racial oppression exists & is very real. It's not the same as comparing socially acceptable to socially unacceptable behaviour. There are some parallels, but you're sort of grasping at straws. Racist people in the USA treat people differently because of their appearance. They're not reacting negatively to their socially unacceptable language or actions. There's a big difference between the two.


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23 Feb 2018, 4:55 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
I object to calling it a disorder, and my point is that its caused by biology, same as the color of ones skin. Its not a choice, any more than being black is. I cant wait for this idea of "normal" to be crushed and swept away, just hope I'm still around to enjoy it.


Good thing you're not a doctor nor making any sort of important decisions about health/medicine or societal policies that pertain to such things.

Doesn't matter if you object to calling it a disorder. It still is one. And yes it's caused by biology... but so is influenza, and cancer, and diabetes etc & so on - should we stop treating all ailments and just let them run their course & kill off whoever they kill?

No one said it was a choice. But leaving it untreated or not learning & practicing everything you can about the social world is.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the idea of "normal," will always exist as it always has. Most people fall into the "normal," range of humans & their behaviour. Then there are the "abnormal," statistical outliers like ourselves who have to make the most of this life as best we can amongst our NT counterparts.

It's perfectly fine to be self accepting and not want to learn or do anything to change the way you interact with the world; just don't complain about others not accepting your quirks and differences as willingly as you do.


Its not a disease caused by a virus or bacteria. (although without good evidence you would of course disagree). Its most likely the result of complex interactions of gene products during the formation of the CNS in utero. An effective "treatment" would in all likelihood involve large scale genetic engineering of which we are presently not capable (and hopefully never will be).


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23 Feb 2018, 4:56 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
I'd also add that having a black skin IS effectively a social disability in the USA, simply because of how they are treated by the white founded institutions. A social experiment was done in which there were two job seekers, one white, and the other black. The white admitted to doing 18 months imprisonment for heroin possession, the black had a clean record. What they found was that the white got more calls back.


Racial oppression exists & is very real. It's not the same as comparing socially acceptable to socially unacceptable behaviour. There are some parallels, but you're sort of grasping at straws. Racist people in the USA treat people differently because of their appearance. They're not reacting negatively to their socially unacceptable language or actions. There's a big difference between the two.


Ask any American racist about the language and actions of black people. Do it.


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Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 5:21 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
Its not a disease caused by a virus or bacteria. (although without good evidence you would of course disagree). Its most likely the result of complex interactions of gene products during the formation of the CNS in utero. An effective "treatment" would in all likelihood involve large scale genetic engineering of which we are presently not capable (and hopefully never will be).


You know this how? And what, besides a wild ass guess & a penchant for sci-fi fantasy, would make you think treatment would involve large scale genetic engineering?

As I've shared here on these forums for 4.5+ years, in my experience it's caused or exacerbated by gut dysbiosis & is treatable via diet/supplements/probiotics in a very effective way. Yes, we know that hard wiring of the brain and nervous system is different in ASD people, but I'm inclined to believe that it's bacteria/viruses that cause this "trip out," of the nervous system's structure to occur during development as there has to be something that causes the effect. It's also possible that that portion is in fact due to genetic anomalies & then the gut dysbiosis simply triggers symptoms via the enteric nervous system and vagus nerve signals. Again, I don't have a lab nor access to the expertise to prove any of these hypotheses - they're simply possibilities garnered from my personal experience of treating my own symptoms with possibly greater success than anyone else on these forums, or elsewhere in the ASD community.


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23 Feb 2018, 5:25 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
Its not a disease caused by a virus or bacteria. (although without good evidence you would of course disagree). Its most likely the result of complex interactions of gene products during the formation of the CNS in utero. An effective "treatment" would in all likelihood involve large scale genetic engineering of which we are presently not capable (and hopefully never will be).


You know this how? And what, besides a wild ass guess & a penchant for sci-fi fantasy, would make you think treatment would involve large scale genetic engineering?

As I've shared here on these forums for 4.5+ years, in my experience it's caused or exacerbated by gut dysbiosis & is treatable via diet/supplements/probiotics in a very effective way. Yes, we know that hard wiring of the brain and nervous system is different in ASD people, but I'm inclined to believe that it's bacteria/viruses that cause this "trip out," of the nervous system's structure to occur during development as there has to be something that causes the effect. It's also possible that that portion is in fact due to genetic anomalies & then the gut dysbiosis simply triggers symptoms via the enteric nervous system and vagus nerve signals. Again, I don't have a lab nor access to the expertise to prove any of these hypotheses - they're simply possibilities garnered from my personal experience of treating my own symptoms with possibly greater success than anyone else on these forums, or elsewhere in the ASD community.


A fetus in the womb has *NO* intestinal microflora. We also know for a fact that there are hundreds of genes involved in the development of the CNS. And please, don't call your garbage a hypothesis, much less a theory.


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Edgar Allan Poe, The Cask of Amontillado


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23 Feb 2018, 5:31 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:
I'd also add that having a black skin IS effectively a social disability in the USA, simply because of how they are treated by the white founded institutions. A social experiment was done in which there were two job seekers, one white, and the other black. The white admitted to doing 18 months imprisonment for heroin possession, the black had a clean record. What they found was that the white got more calls back.


Racial oppression exists & is very real. It's not the same as comparing socially acceptable to socially unacceptable behaviour. There are some parallels, but you're sort of grasping at straws. Racist people in the USA treat people differently because of their appearance. They're not reacting negatively to their socially unacceptable language or actions. There's a big difference between the two.


Ask any American racist about the language and actions of black people. Do it.


I'm trying to figure out what your point is.. ? :?

Black people can have as varied a vocabulary & knowledge base as anyone else. Same with their actions. Some are legitimately inexcusably awful in the way they speak & behave, and others are absolutely nothing short of Presidential - ie Mr. Barrack Obama.

If you're suggesting that pointy hat wearing racist white people are going to say that all blacks are rude subhumans, that doesn't make it so. Obviously.

But again, I'm not quite sure what point you were even trying to make. :?


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