Would social democracy make affirmative action irrelevant?

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Pepe
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13 Feb 2018, 4:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

That isn't the communist attitude, the attitude is everyone works/contributes so that everyone can have a comfortable life. I mean ok might have been the soviet russia under Stalin attitude, but that doesn't really encompass the over-all idea.

I understand the basic principles of communism...
But history has convincingly shown, to me at least, that it is a failed philosophy due primarily to the egocentricity of humanity...
Yes, I was cheeky in saying what I said, but as I said, the evidence is, there are many more self-serving individuals than those with altruistic ideals...

Sweetleaf wrote:

Also though I have been on SSI due to disability for a few years now, and if it wasn't for getting financial help I wouldn't have been able to afford treatment to help my issues and improve so I would be capable of earning for myself. I think I have improved a lot and am ready to start working towards getting off SSI by making my own income...but if it wasn't for things like SSI and Medicaid not sure that would be the case.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rules, and no "tea cup" philosophising can hope to encompass the complexity of the subject, but we can, when discussing broad principles, legitimately engage in some degree of reductionism, or we would be engulfed in philosophical minutia and end up with no resolution whatsoever...
I.E. What usually happens... :mrgreen:

Damn!
This thread is on fire!
Good work, DMK... :mrgreen:

Daniel89
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13 Feb 2018, 4:13 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

Why is it the fault of the rich that the poor choose to have children they cannot afford? Corruption can make people poor but the vast majority of people are poor because their parents were poor and chose to have kids they couldn't provide for.

Should poor children be abandoned by society just because their parents were irresponsible?

Another Thing: The poor will fewer kids if abortion is legal and sex education is taught in public schools. Are you in favor of those things?

I am in favour of Abortion and sex education, lack of sex education is not why poor people have children they cannot afford I think that is an incredibly patronising idea. I don't think society should abandon children but I don't think it should encourage the irresponsible people to take on the greatest responsibility. I think the most ethical and effective solution would be anyone who wants a government hand out has to get sterilised.

Pepe
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13 Feb 2018, 4:22 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Quote:

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/maimonides_326751

Good idea! Let's teach a man to fish ... by making post-secondary education free!

Precisely...
Sounds good to me, assuming the economy can cope with it...

Here's an idea!:
Let's make the economy great again so "we" can afford a free post-secondary education!

I was being deliberately cheeky here...
I don't have a hard and fast opinion about Trump and his leadership... :mrgreen:

Pepe
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13 Feb 2018, 4:29 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I think it would, as it would help to remove some of the barriers and things that make things like affirmative action necessary in the first place.

Note to Feminists: Sweetleaf is female. This proves I'm not sexist. Checkmate.

I thought the comment proved that Sweetleaf agreed with you on this point? :scratch:

Even a monkey...errr...the monkey being you in this case...can be right 25% of the time on a multiple choice question... :mrgreen:

Check: Your move... :mrgreen:

Mikah
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13 Feb 2018, 11:32 pm

I thought affirmative action was about "solving" minority under-representation in fashionable jobs and visible positions, not about curing poverty.

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Pepe
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14 Feb 2018, 1:36 am

Daniel89 wrote:

I think the most ethical and effective solution would be anyone who wants a government hand out has to get sterilised.

Jawohl, mein Fuhrer! :hockey:

Daniel89
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14 Feb 2018, 1:56 am

Pepe wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

I think the most ethical and effective solution would be anyone who wants a government hand out has to get sterilised.

Jawohl, mein Fuhrer! :hockey:

A silly comment Hitler supported a form of Eugenics the welfare state is dysgenics being opposed to it does not make you a eugenicist.

Pepe
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14 Feb 2018, 2:28 am

Daniel89 wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Daniel89 wrote:

I think the most ethical and effective solution would be anyone who wants a government hand out has to get sterilised.

Jawohl, mein Fuhrer! :hockey:

A silly comment Hitler supported a form of Eugenics the welfare state is dysgenics being opposed to it does not make you a eugenicist.

Quote:

A good sense of humor doesn't mean memorizing jokes and jamming them into conversations. A good sense of humor responds to the flow of conversation in ways that are creative and entertaining.

A good sense of humour means you can see things from different sides, from different angles, in different ways.

https://www.quora.com/What-does-a-good- ... ersonality

You may not find me funny, but I crack myself up all the time...

Errr...I am being humorous here also, btw... :mrgreen:

But seriously, I was highlighting the point that this would never be politically correct these days...
It would never be socially acceptable...
I will bet your left testicle on that!

Personally, I don't have a problem with the concept of sterilization and kudos to people who do do it...
Way too many people in the world and the philosophical idea of dragging people kicking and screaming out of the womb without their consent in being born into this abominable life system is quite a totalitarian or dare I say fascist thing to do!

Good grief, (Charlie Brown), I'm back to Nazism again...

I'm sorry I upset you...
It was not my intention...
Can we kiss and make up? :wink:

adifferentname
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14 Feb 2018, 3:18 am

Mikah wrote:

I thought affirmative action was about "solving" minority under-representation in fashionable jobs and visible positions, not about curing poverty.

That's certainly how it manifests.

It's almost as if idealism and pragmatism exist on a continuum rather than as a rigid dichotomy.

Daniel89
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14 Feb 2018, 3:20 am

Sure. I know it won't be politically correct but its the most moral solution.

Pepe
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14 Feb 2018, 3:56 am

Mikah wrote:

I thought affirmative action was about "solving" minority under-representation in fashionable jobs and visible positions, not about curing poverty.

I don't know why I am having trouble with your statement...but I have to find out precisely where you are coming from...

I gather you are being facetious/ironic here...
Are you saying affirmative action is a cynical exercise?
Are you being ironic and making the point that affirmative action *is* meant to help the poor...
Or are you making another point altogether?

Mikah
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14 Feb 2018, 4:38 pm

Pepe wrote:

Mikah wrote:

I thought affirmative action was about "solving" minority under-representation in fashionable jobs and visible positions, not about curing poverty.

I'm being serious, I've never heard quotas or affirmative action justified by saying they will cure poverty. It's always about under-representation and diversity in the workplace, a cure for the actions of horrible racist white people and glass ceilings etc. Poverty solvers usually talk about welfare or socialism, not positive discrimination. Maybe it's an American thing.

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Pepe
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14 Feb 2018, 5:26 pm

Mikah wrote:

So, bottom line, do you see a place for affirmative action?

Mikah
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14 Feb 2018, 7:02 pm

Pepe wrote:

Mikah wrote:

So, bottom line, do you see a place for affirmative action?

Not the way I see the world. Under/over representation across ethnicities and gender is normal when you have a free market and freedom of choice. It's not something that needs "fixing".

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