At least 17 dead in Florida School Shooting

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Raptor
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24 Feb 2018, 7:57 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Research by Harvard medical school suggests that if guns were banned then the rate of suicide would be reduced (fact) given there is higher chance of successfully killing yourself with a gun compared to using a kitchen knife or pills


Well in that case I guess we don't have a problem with illicit drugs.
Oh, wait...


You're ridiculous.

Careful with the personal attacks :shameonyou:

Quote:
Just because some people will still make an effort to obtain illegal items doesn't mean that those items shouldn't be illegal/banned/controlled at all.

Yeah, let's just have laws for the sake of having laws. It'll at least give bully cops, sociopathic prosecutors, and for-profit prisons some business.

Quote:
Especially when it comes to guns.. considering their primary purpose is to kill.

Yeah I kill people with mine every day.
:roll:


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Darmok
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24 Feb 2018, 8:01 pm

The headline logic of the season seems to be:

OMG TRUMP IS HITLER!!

OMG, WE NEED TRUMP TO TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS!!

Image


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cyberdad
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24 Feb 2018, 8:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Research by Harvard medical school suggests that if guns were banned then the rate of suicide would be reduced (fact) given there is higher chance of successfully killing yourself with a gun compared to using a kitchen knife or pills


Well in that case I guess we don't have a problem with illicit drugs.
Oh, wait...

Not sure where you are heading? mass shooters obtained their AR-15 assault rifles legally...making guns illegal would make it harder to kill yourself



goldfish21
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24 Feb 2018, 8:53 pm

It's interesting how pretty much all those posting here who are not American are more interested in protecting American school children from gun violence than the American posters here. Why is this? Why do Americans not care about their youth being murdered with guns?


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cyberdad
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24 Feb 2018, 8:58 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It's interesting how pretty much all those posting here who are not American are more interested in protecting American school children from gun violence than the American posters here. Why is this? Why do Americans not care about their youth being murdered with guns?


Pure selfishness I think...I want my guns...I don't care if other people kill others so long as I can keep mine...



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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24 Feb 2018, 10:22 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It's interesting how pretty much all those posting here who are not American are more interested in protecting American school children from gun violence than the American posters here. Why is this? Why do Americans not care about their youth being murdered with guns?


Here's one who does: this is Kentucky State representative Chris Harris, sacrificing his NRA A rating to throw his support to common sense gun control laws. I was particularly taken by his reference to the book of James, and his willingness to give up the NRA endorsement for Lent.


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Raptor
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25 Feb 2018, 12:01 am

goldfish21 wrote:
It's interesting how pretty much all those posting here who are not American are more interested in protecting American school children from gun violence than the American posters here. Why is this? Why do Americans not care about their youth being murdered with guns?


Because those so called non-Americans are probably Americans that are ashamed to be American so they pose as foreigners. It's as simple as putting down whatever location you want on your profile and talking the talk.

To a liberal America is hell on Earth because we dont give away enough free stuff, we have the worlds most powerful military that rules the world with an iron fist, people die by the quintillions daily from lack of free healthcare and being mowed down by dangerous assault rifles given away to kids by the NRA, all of our presidents including democrats are too conservative, and billions of other unspeakable horrors that define America.

Could it be that I'm actually a Canadian from Drumheller AB posing as an American because I think Canada is too liberal? I have created false profiles and personas even before WP.
Something to consider... :chin:


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 12:11 am

I'm really an Albanian grandmother.



Darmok
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25 Feb 2018, 12:17 am

EzraS wrote:
I'm really an Albanian grandmother.

So am I. All of Putin's agents are Albanian grandmothers. We are very reliable.


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goldfish21
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25 Feb 2018, 12:21 am

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It's interesting how pretty much all those posting here who are not American are more interested in protecting American school children from gun violence than the American posters here. Why is this? Why do Americans not care about their youth being murdered with guns?


Here's one who does: this is Kentucky State representative Chris Harris, sacrificing his NRA A rating to throw his support to common sense gun control laws. I was particularly taken by his reference to the book of James, and his willingness to give up the NRA endorsement for Lent.



That was a good speech. The US needs a lot more politicians like this guy.


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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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25 Feb 2018, 2:30 am

Image

This is from Pia Guerra again. She is the artist who did that breathtaking drawing of Coach Feis being welcomed by all the other school shooting victims, that Goldfish linked to upthread.

March for Our Lives has raised $5M already. That is separate from the fund for victims' families ($2M+).

Yeah, keep making fun of the young gal with the buzz cut. That seems to be working realllllll well.

Oh and: out of 27 listed corporate "partners" (offering member discounts and services) the NRA has lost 18 so far.


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auntblabby
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25 Feb 2018, 2:32 am

mebbe "time's up!" is in this realm as well? could I hope?



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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25 Feb 2018, 2:46 am

^^ I'm feeling just a tiny bit of optimism about this, myself.

Partly because FedEx has now dropped its deal with the NRA, bringing our total to 19 of 27 gone.


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25 Feb 2018, 3:21 am

EzraS wrote:
I'm really an Albanian grandmother.

I thought we were all from Autistica.


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eikonabridge
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25 Feb 2018, 9:08 am

After the shooting, there are many people calling for increased mental health services. E.g.:

Florida shooting shows the need for more mental health programs
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/22/florida-shooting-shows-need-for-more-mental-health-programs.html

Interestingly, there is this news headline, too:

DCF RECORDS: Nikolas Cruz was Receiving Mental Health Services, Taking Medication, and Attending School when State Case Closed
http://www.myflfamilies.com/press-release/dcf-records-nikolas-cruz-was-receiving-mental-health-services-taking-medication-and

It reminds me of the case of James Holmes:

Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes was seeing psychiatrist at university before massacre
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/colorado-shooting-suspect-james-holmes-was-seeing-psychiatrist-at-university-before-massacre/2012/07/27/gJQAsTwHEX_story.html

Holmes was seeing psychiatrists, yes, plural, and matter of fact, his last psychiatrist has increased the dosage of his prescription, several times. James Holmes was compliant with taking his medication. BBC has made a controversial documentary, but it's worth pointing out here.

The Batman Killer - a prescription for murder? - BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/aurora_shooting
From Wikipedia on James Holmes, we see:
Healy said: "These killings would never have happened had it not been for the medication James Holmes had been prescribed.”

- - -

So it seems, in these cases, mental health care was not helping. Worse, it could very possibly be the cause of all the downward spiraling and violence.

- - -

The point is, today's approach in mental health care is largely a mechanism of scapegoating. Same thing with the school teachers and psychologists. Their main job is to keep an eye on the "patients" and their main tool is to either hospitalize patients (another term for imprisoning them), remove them from classroom, or expel them from school.

(My children's schools are quite alright and very cooperative. I am talking in general.)

I just don't know increasing this type of mental health care will make any difference. Frankly, I don't think so.

- - -

In the specific case of autism, I have repeatedly said that it is not a mental disorder, by any stretch of imagination. It is precisely because our society chooses to view autism as a mental disorder that we neglect to properly develop autistic children, and we drive these children into comatose adults with all sort of problems. It's not even a case of the cure being worse than the disease, because there is no disease, to begin with.

We start by trying to socialize our children from 2 or 3 years of age. By the time these children have turned into 20- or 30-year-old adults, we are still tring to make them social. I mean, don't people realize there is something very wrong with our current approach? We use prescription drugs to give the illusion that we are doing something about autism, while never addressing the root causes. Don't people realize that all our current "treatments" are the very cause of suffering of autistic adults?

Take a look at my recent posting. Pause, and think, why my children are happy every day, with big smiles on their faces, and are darlings to everyone around them.

http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=360648

There is a different way of approaching autism. We need to wake up and accept that the medical approach has failed and is wrong. Autism is a developmental issue, an educational issue. A medical issue it is not. Our society has grown used to conveniently scapegoat its own failure onto a non-existing disorder. In another 30 or 40 years, when people look back, they will realize just how mentally ill our society has been, all along.

- - -

Sorry for making this message long. Before anyone argues with me, please check out people like Dr. Barry M. Prizant and Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen. There are plenty of experts that don't think autism is a disorder.

Prizant: "Autism isn't an illness. It's a different way of being human. Children with autism aren't sick; they are progressing through developmental stages as we all do. To help them, we don't need to change or fix them. We need to work to understand them, and then change what we do." (In Uniquely Human: A Different Way of Seeing Autism).

Baron-Cohen:


As I have said in my own linked message: blaming the suffering of autistic adults on autism is like blaming an operating system for the failures of the application programmers.

Mass shooting monsters are not born that way. They are made that way. Our society has raised these monsters. But no one is taking responsibility.


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25 Feb 2018, 1:52 pm

^^^ Another very powerful cartoon. 8) That girl has a powerful charismatic presence, too. I like her. I hope she carries on doing as she's doing and becomes the face of change in all of this nonsense.


^ Yes, it's a multi-pronged problem. It's not just guns. It's mental health, too. Mental health has, IMO, been slipping worse and worse over the years (in general) and IMO it's largely due to the shift in diet from real food to all the processed crap & chemicals people consume. You are what you eat! Our great grandparents didn't have nearly as many people going "Postal," nor did they have as large a % of kids on pharmaceutical drugs - or any other sort of intervention for a variety of mental health issues. People are becoming ever more unhealthy in every way and many of them are snapping now. As a society, we need better mental health care for sure.. but also better prevention in the first place & IMO that has to come from better nutrition & physical activity all the way from pregnant mothers to the death of their child. People need to turn back the clocks on what we're eating and reject all of the poisonous crap being pumped out of factories that's causing their brains to go haywire. We'd solve a whole heck of a lot of this stuff over the next generation or so by simply going back to planting gardens & cooking our own meals.


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