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Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 10:36 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

As a Catholic, which English translation of the Bible do you prefer?

The Knox version, the Douay-Rheims version, and the RSV-CE in that order of preference. I also heard that the New Catholic Bible is pretty a good, I might check that version out one day.

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Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 10:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I don't think Catholics would be into the Good News Bible.

If this were any time other than the 20th-21st centuries, they would probably prefer a Latin version, or a version in the original languages.

Both Knox version and the Douay-Rheims are translations of the Latin Vulgate, which is still considered the authoritative Biblical text of the Catholic Church, though forget exactly how magisterially, and also it's a specific version of the Vulgate, I forget what is called. The Knox version however uses and compares the various Hebrew and Greek manuscripts available at the time it was written, which is I why I like it more the Douay-Rheims version.

One funny thing about the Douay-Rheims version is that, it was such a strict, literal translation of the Latin Vulgate, that some of the verses actually come out as a form of Latin Engrish or Anglish as I like to call it.

Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 10:57 pm

redrobin62 wrote:

You didn't answer my question, but then again, I wasn't expecting you to. Quoting text from a collection of stories written by man is not proof, sorry.

I just gave you a long philosophical argument as proof of the existence of God, and you dismiss me of using the Bible which I didn't do, not even one single verse, I just said "here's what the ancient Israelites believed, compare it with what I just showed you, and think about it."

Please read my argument again.

RetroGamer87
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26 Feb 2018, 11:21 pm

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

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Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2018, 3:05 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

Yes, I do.

I find it pretty hard to believe that any Catholic would deny belief that Saint Peter was the first Pope, I could be wrong though.

Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2018, 4:40 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:

Reply to 1: Yes the soul does "split like an amoeba" because the human zygote has split like an amoeba, there are now two identical twins with there own bodies, minds, and wills.

Reply to 2: This one is a bit difficult, but I'll venture to say yes, the souls do merge, due to the fact that the two zygotes have merged and have become a human genetical chimera. This merged soul would differ only so much as to the fact that body has the genes of a chimera.

I messed-up here, like I said, I'm no expert, I do not speak on behalf of the Church.

Correction to reply 1: When a zygote splits in two, God infuses a new soul into the new zygote at the very exact moment the two split, even though the two are identical.

Correction to reply 2: In Chimerism the zygotes don't merge, they collide and one of them dies and is absorbed into the other, with only it's genes remaining. What happens to the soul of the deceased zygote? The same that happens to any stillborn, namely we don't know, the soul died unbaptized so we can only entrust it to the mercy of God. We touched upon Limbo earlier in this thread, if Limbo exist, the child may go there, is not than, please God, he/she will go to Heaven.

RetroGamer87
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27 Feb 2018, 6:03 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

Yes, I do.

I find it pretty hard to believe that any Catholic would deny belief that Saint Peter was the first Pope, I could be wrong though.

And do you believe Mary remained virgin for her entire life? Even after the birth of Christ?

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Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2018, 10:16 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

Yes, I do.

I find it pretty hard to believe that any Catholic would deny belief that Saint Peter was the first Pope, I could be wrong though.

And do you believe Mary remained virgin for her entire life? Even after the birth of Christ?

Yes, I believe all four Marian Dogmas.

RetroGamer87
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27 Feb 2018, 10:26 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

Yes, I do.

I find it pretty hard to believe that any Catholic would deny belief that Saint Peter was the first Pope, I could be wrong though.

And do you believe Mary remained virgin for her entire life? Even after the birth of Christ?

Yes, I believe all four Marian Dogmas.

What are the other three?

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Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2018, 10:43 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Greatshield17 wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Do you believe Saint Peter was the first Pope?

Yes, I do.

I find it pretty hard to believe that any Catholic would deny belief that Saint Peter was the first Pope, I could be wrong though.

And do you believe Mary remained virgin for her entire life? Even after the birth of Christ?

Yes, I believe all four Marian Dogmas.

What are the other three?

- The Mother of God or Theotokos: that is, that she truly bore in her womb (Theotokos) and gave birth to God, thus should be called exactly that, Mother of God. The Eastern Orthodox and Luthrans also believe this dogma, and a few other Protestant groups sort of play with this and give it logical consent.

- The Immaculate Conceiveption: that is conceived without original sin. Some Eastern Orthodox people used to believe this, -including the first Patriarch of Constantinople under Ottoman rule, which is very ironic considering he was a Thomist, and Thomists were the key opponents of the Immaculate Conception before it became a declared dogma- but most Orthodox today reject it.

- The Assumption: That is, that she was Assumed body and soul into Heaven, which is why no archaeological search has ever found her body. The Eastern Orthodox also believe this, but they consider it a mere tradition, not a dogma.

RetroGamer87
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28 Feb 2018, 3:49 am

What is the Catholic position on Israel? Do the Catholics side with the Jews or with Palestine?

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auntblabby
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28 Feb 2018, 3:55 am

to OP: what is your position on reincarnation?

redrobin62
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28 Feb 2018, 1:03 pm

Your "Long philosophical argument" was nothing more than smoke and mirrors, not substantive proof. And you DID use the bible as proof by quoting from Exodus. Nice try, though. You get points for the attempt.

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Tim_Tex
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28 Feb 2018, 1:06 pm

Is the “no meat on Fridays” rule still enforced?

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Gromit
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28 Feb 2018, 2:47 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:

Gromit wrote:

Is this a purely theological or philosophical argument, or has that been examined by a physicist? Is the spontaneous generation and annihilation of particles expected by quantum physics a problem?

It's a philosophical argument, which is why I presented the argument the way I did. The claim that particles spontaneous generate and annihilate is false, particles do not flash in and out of of existence, they exist in a wavelike superposition and then appear as particles at certain point in that wave when measured.

I think you mistake my point for something else. Please have a look at these:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea/

Greatshield17 wrote:

The soul the life principle of a creature, it is the totality of the material body, and the immaterial mind and will.

Reply to 1: Yes the soul does "split like an amoeba" because the human zygote has split like an amoeba, there are now two identical twins with there own bodies, minds, and wills.

"Totality of the body", not just the brain?

Greatshield17 wrote:

In Chimerism the zygotes don't merge, they collide and one of them dies and is absorbed into the other, with only it's genes remaining.

In what sense does one of the zygotes die?

Greatshield17 wrote:

This merged soul would differ only so much as to the fact that body has the genes of a chimera.

I don't know what that means for a soul. If I make a strict analogy, I would have to assume that each cell has a little cellular soul, and that the elements of the merged soul distribute like the corresponding cells. It seems unlikely that you mean this.

Greatshield17 wrote:

Yes and no, Onan's sin is but one of many reasons why the Catholic Church recognizes contraception as sinful, the main reason being the Natural Law, the purpose of sexual-intercourse is to procreate new life.

I looked up natural law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law), and it sounds like inferring biological function and then assuming that what I know as the natural fallacy is no fallacy, but a valid guide to what is right. In other words, if I know the biological function of a behavioural trait, then whatever behaviour is involved is the right thing to do?

Greatshield17 wrote:

the fact that Onan was using coitus interruptus for the malicious intent of not providing his brother's household with an heir, actually reinforces the fact that contraception is harmful. Economies, and civilizations as a whole for that matter, run on people, not big government, not big business, and no, not technology, people!

I don't see how that follows. The text does not state that the sin lay in there being one less human. And a larger population is only good for economies and civilisations if the population is far enough from carrying capacity. You can debate what the actual limit is, but even if resources were infinite, because access to resources can't grow exponentially, there are situations when populations grows faster than is good. Does the Catholic church accept contraception in that situation?

Greatshield17 wrote:

If human beings are not raising up the next generation to support and inherit civilization, our civilization is going to collapse.

I don't see in that any need for population growth, never mind exponential growth.

Greatshield17 wrote:

(And if you're going to bring up the celibate religious and clerical, these are actually exceptions that prove the rule because right now in the Church, we're actually experiencing a vocation crisis because so many lay Catholics are using contraception in disobedience of the Church's teaching, and failing to provide potential priests and religious)

Do religions or denominations that allow contraception then have an even greater crisis, even if they allow their clerics to marry? If not, I doubt your causal attribution.

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28 Feb 2018, 7:36 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Is the “no meat on Fridays” rule still enforced?

Apparently not...
But before the repeal, those who did were doomed to eternal hell...

Must be a lot of pissed people in hell saying: D'oh! :mrgreen:

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