Did God rape and impregnate a married woman?

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naturalplastic
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19 Feb 2018, 9:56 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
"The immaculate conception" is the Catholic doctrine that when the Virgin Mary was herself conceived (the normal way humans and mammals are all conceived) that she was conceived free of Original Sin.

When Jesus said "none of you are righteous, not even one", was Mary excluded from this? Was he referring to the entirety of the human race or only those present?


After his mom was born she probably returned a view VHS tapes to the renter without rewinding them, and failed to remove the occasional tag from mattresses that she bought. Probably played cards for money a few times. So even though she was free of "Original Sin" when she was born she probably committed at least a few of her own original sins after she was born. Lol!

That's all well and good but why does she have to remove the tags from the mattresses she bought?


My bad. :oops:

I shoulda said that she DID remove the tags from mattresses. Not that she "failed" to do so.

Removing is the sin. Not failure to remove.

Its a running joke, but I told it the wrong way around.

For decades mattresses in the USA have been manufactured with tags on the bottom that sternly warn that "you cant remove tag under penalty of law" or some such. The tags are addressed to the retail merchants who sell the mattresses. Not to the consumer. The store cant remove them. But some consumers wrongly assume that the message is for them, the consumer. So they...dutifully leave the stupid fraying tags on their mattresses for years and years. Hence the running the running joke about not removing them.



UncannyDanny
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19 Feb 2018, 10:18 am

IMHO, I think Jesus is biologically the son of Mary and Joseph, but was claimed by God as his “successor” or “surrogate son”, just like how God chose Abraham as the father of Judaism, and Moses as the savior who brought the Hebrews out of Egypt.

Then again, maybe God having a relationship with a woman is not that different from pagan gods having relationships with women who gave birth to Perseus, Hercules, Theseus, etc.

I don't know. Again, this is just my honest opinion, so who knows? :roll:



Last edited by UncannyDanny on 19 Feb 2018, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

bobaspie2015
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19 Feb 2018, 10:24 am

Yes God did Rape And Impregnate A Married Woman?



kraftiekortie
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19 Feb 2018, 10:45 am

God did nothing of the kind.

There’s nothing in Christian theology which indicates that God had intercourse with Mary.

At the most, he “created” a pregnancy in Mary, just like he “created” everything else,



bobaspie2015
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19 Feb 2018, 11:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
God did nothing of the kind.
There’s nothing in Christian theology which indicates that God had intercourse with Mary.
At the most, he “created” a pregnancy in Mary, just like he “created” everything else,

You have responded quickly.
Are you now able to respond with the same quickness according to Scripture? That is to say the Holy Bible, rather than Christian theology?
I can garentee you are not able.



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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19 Feb 2018, 12:14 pm

Here's your Biblical Scripture response. Read it.

Luke 1: 26 - 38
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be.
30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34 And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?"
35 And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing will be impossible."
38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

She was told what would happen and why, and she gave her consent.

This was not rape.

She was not yet married.

When her husband to be realized she was pregnant, he was also reassured.

Matthew 1 18-25
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for [He will save His people from their sins.”
22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.


Now, can we stop with the hate-baiting around here? It's getting very, very tiresome. There are respectful ways to disagree with people, even in matters of faith. I do not have the Marian devotion of GreatShield, for example, but I understand why he feels that way and I respect him. I also respect my Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Baha'i, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhist, Confucian, and Zoroastrian workmates, and yes, I've worked with people of all those faiths.

The more we ASD folks behave hatefully to one another, the more justification we give to the non-ASD population for judging us harshly.


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-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


Last edited by Esmerelda Weatherwax on 19 Feb 2018, 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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19 Feb 2018, 12:23 pm

The first set of Scripture can be interpreted as a depiction of a non-intercourse "creation," or as intercourse expressed symbolically.

There could be a question of "consent," as interpreted by a modern audience.

But there is no implication that Mary was "raped" through this action. Rather, this "action"was seen as being inevitable.

Mary was "troubled" at first---but she came around to it because it was "the will of God."



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 19 Feb 2018, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobaspie2015
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19 Feb 2018, 12:31 pm

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
Here's your Biblical Scripture response. Read it.
Luke 1: 26 - 38
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be.
30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34 And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?"
35 And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing will be impossible."
38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.
She was told what would happen and why, and she gave her consent.
This was not rape.
She was not yet married.
When her husband to be realized she was pregnant, he was also reassured.
Matthew 1 18-25
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for [He will save His people from their sins.”
22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Now, can we stop with the hate-baiting around here? It's getting very, very tiresome. There are respectful ways to disagree with people, even in matters of faith. I do not have the Marian devotion of GreatShield, for example, but I understand why he feels that way and I respect him. I also respect my Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Baha'i, Hindu, Shinto, and Zoroastrian workmates, and yes, I've worked with people of all those faiths.
The more we ASD folks behave hatefully to one another, the more justification we give to the non-ASD population for judging us harshly.


I love your response, yet I am awaiting kraftiekortie response.



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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19 Feb 2018, 12:32 pm

^^ Hey Kraftie.

One of the most eloquent and thought provoking sermons I have ever heard was in an Anglican church, the topic being Mary's consent. The minister focused very clearly on her, on her feelings, on her centrality and her decisionmaking. She was an adult, old enough to marry in that society, certainly old enough to make up her own mind. Oh, and. The minister was male, and very much in love with his brilliant, capable, clearly seen-as-equal wife.

:-)


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-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


bobaspie2015
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19 Feb 2018, 12:36 pm

You have responded quickly.
Are you now able to respond with the same quickness according to Scripture? That is to say the Holy Bible, rather than Christian theology?
I can garentee you are not able.



kraftiekortie
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19 Feb 2018, 12:39 pm

As for the second set of Scripture, Joseph was troubled at first because Mary was pregnant before they were to be married.

But when he realized, through what the Lord said in his dream, that the child was (not through intercourse, probably) conceived by the Holy Spirit, he accepted the inevitability and the nature of the "conception," and got married to Mary.

And things proceeded from there, just like any legitimately married couple of the time.

To Joseph, it was the "will of God," and that's that. That's how Joseph thought.



kraftiekortie
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19 Feb 2018, 12:44 pm

Yes, I'll admit it: I'm not well-versed in the Bible.



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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19 Feb 2018, 12:50 pm

^^ @Kraftie: Joseph received some pretty extraordinary reassurance, though. That's central - they were very young, but they were reassured. Their free will was respected, or they wouldn't have been reassured, merely commanded.

PS, no reason at all for conventional measures to be necessary, given that the creator of DNA was on the case. What's interesting is that although parthenogenesis exists in other animals, it would have created a female child, in our species (Mary was almost certainly not XXY - not all those with Klinefelters are male, but women with the syndrome are both rare and infertile).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access ... ?aid=71945

Over and out.


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"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


kraftiekortie
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19 Feb 2018, 12:56 pm

Yep. Joseph was "reassured" as to the "source" of the pregnancy.

At least, he wanted to spare Mary from being ostracized before he knew the "source." Perhaps he was "sending her away" to some of his family?



naturalplastic
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19 Feb 2018, 2:24 pm

The angels informed her that the Holy Ghost is about to knock her up. And she said that she was down with that.

Then God snapped his finger , and she was instantly preggers. Just like 4000 years earlier he snapped his fingers and instantly conjured up heaven and earth.

It was all done nongraphically with pixie dust, and there was no sexual imagery like there is in Greek mythology. No kinky stuff like Zeus turning into a bull, and then getting it on with Europa.

So. No. God didn't "rape" her. He didn't even seduce her.



bobaspie2015
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19 Feb 2018, 3:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, I'll admit it: I'm not well-versed in the Bible.

Cool bananas; now I shall take back that you are a 'know it all.'
Thank you for your honesty.