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13 Russian nationals indicted for meddling in 2016 election

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JohnPowell
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19 Feb 2018, 1:24 pm

Reality check.


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Kraichgauer
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19 Feb 2018, 2:55 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Reality check.



All this video is is a Trumpite justification of Russian interference in our elections.
And yes, there is a difference. During the Cold War, we believed we were in an existential struggle with a political system that had plotted to destroy us. At least today we can agree that the choices that were made were often wrong. Putin, on the other hand, aggressively wanted to stop his nemesis, Hillary Clinton, from becoming elected, because she had talked mean about him, preferring a compromised puppet like Trump. And with that compromised puppet, Putin is able to exact his revenge on America for humiliating Russia at the end of the Cold War.


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EzraS
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19 Feb 2018, 11:01 pm

Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".

JohnPowell wrote:
Some of the accusations is that they were promoting facts and sourcing sites like the Washington Post haha.


Then they better start indicting a lot of media outlets too, because it seems like 75% of trump articles start out with "according to the washington post...".

JohnPowell wrote:
Also, if Trump is a Russian puppet, he is a terrible one as US backed fighters have killed scores of Russians in Syria.


That's a valid point.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Putin, on the other hand, aggressively wanted to stop his nemesis, Hillary Clinton, from becoming elected, because she had talked mean about him, preferring a compromised puppet like Trump. And with that compromised puppet, Putin is able to exact his revenge on America for humiliating Russia at the end of the Cold War.


That's a purely hypothetical scenario.



Kraichgauer
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19 Feb 2018, 11:21 pm

EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".

JohnPowell wrote:
Some of the accusations is that they were promoting facts and sourcing sites like the Washington Post haha.


Then they better start indicting a lot of media outlets too, because it seems like 75% of trump articles start out with "according to the washington post...".

JohnPowell wrote:
Also, if Trump is a Russian puppet, he is a terrible one as US backed fighters have killed scores of Russians in Syria.


That's a valid point.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Putin, on the other hand, aggressively wanted to stop his nemesis, Hillary Clinton, from becoming elected, because she had talked mean about him, preferring a compromised puppet like Trump. And with that compromised puppet, Putin is able to exact his revenge on America for humiliating Russia at the end of the Cold War.


That's a purely hypothetical scenario.


A hypothesis isn't a falsehood, and very likely is provable.


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19 Feb 2018, 11:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
All this video is is a Trumpite justification of Russian interference in our elections.


Most Trumpers deny any Russian interference.

There are a few Trumpers who openly admire Vladimir Putin, but not many.

Quote:
And yes, there is a difference. During the Cold War, we believed we were in an existential struggle with a political system that had plotted to destroy us.


I think that the guy in the video is referring to the first Russian election after the disillusion of the USSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_1991

The US government did interfere in order to ensure Yeltsin's victory. That is simply a fact.


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20 Feb 2018, 4:30 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Absolute farcical garbage. The 13 have no connections to Putin or the Trump campaign.
Some of the accusations is that they were promoting facts and sourcing sites like the Washington Post haha. You couldn't make this stuff up. Also, if Trump is a Russian puppet, he is a terrible one as US backed fighters have killed scores of Russians in Syria.


Oh, right, because neither leader would sacrifice his country's soldiers for his own personal gain..


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20 Feb 2018, 4:34 am

EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".


Um, no. The legal tactic has been discussed in headline news. They're releasing these indictments & charges etc in waves designed to make others involved wonder who may have squealed and what they may have said.. as well as to actually get some of them to talk & turn on others.. etc. It's also buying them time to further their investigation. The specific charges and timing of them are deliberate. I bet Mueller & team have a whole lot more than they've let on.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2018, 10:54 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".


Um, no. The legal tactic has been discussed in headline news. They're releasing these indictments & charges etc in waves designed to make others involved wonder who may have squealed and what they may have said.. as well as to actually get some of them to talk & turn on others.. etc. It's also buying them time to further their investigation. The specific charges and timing of them are deliberate. I bet Mueller & team have a whole lot more than they've let on.


That as well is a matter of conjecture, even if it's (washington post et al) headline news.



goldfish21
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20 Feb 2018, 11:17 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".


Um, no. The legal tactic has been discussed in headline news. They're releasing these indictments & charges etc in waves designed to make others involved wonder who may have squealed and what they may have said.. as well as to actually get some of them to talk & turn on others.. etc. It's also buying them time to further their investigation. The specific charges and timing of them are deliberate. I bet Mueller & team have a whole lot more than they've let on.


That as well is a matter of conjecture, even if it's (washington post et al) headline news.


I still have a hard time picturing you wearing a MAGA hat, but it's getting easier.


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EzraS
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20 Feb 2018, 11:35 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".


Um, no. The legal tactic has been discussed in headline news. They're releasing these indictments & charges etc in waves designed to make others involved wonder who may have squealed and what they may have said.. as well as to actually get some of them to talk & turn on others.. etc. It's also buying them time to further their investigation. The specific charges and timing of them are deliberate. I bet Mueller & team have a whole lot more than they've let on.


That as well is a matter of conjecture, even if it's (washington post et al) headline news.


I still have a hard time picturing you wearing a MAGA hat, but it's getting easier.


Why so snarky?



JohnPowell
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20 Feb 2018, 12:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Reality check.



All this video is is a Trumpite justification of Russian interference in our elections.
And yes, there is a difference. During the Cold War, we believed we were in an existential struggle with a political system that had plotted to destroy us. At least today we can agree that the choices that were made were often wrong. Putin, on the other hand, aggressively wanted to stop his nemesis, Hillary Clinton, from becoming elected, because she had talked mean about him, preferring a compromised puppet like Trump. And with that compromised puppet, Putin is able to exact his revenge on America for humiliating Russia at the end of the Cold War.


Is this post a joke? The US plotted to destroy the Soviet Union, so don't start the story in the middle. Haha cool story. Like I said he is a terrible puppet then. None of this is about collusion. The only collusion that came from it was Flynn and Israel.


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JohnPowell
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20 Feb 2018, 12:35 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Absolute farcical garbage. The 13 have no connections to Putin or the Trump campaign.
Some of the accusations is that they were promoting facts and sourcing sites like the Washington Post haha. You couldn't make this stuff up. Also, if Trump is a Russian puppet, he is a terrible one as US backed fighters have killed scores of Russians in Syria.


Oh, right, because neither leader would sacrifice his country's soldiers for his own personal gain..


How is Russian soldiers being killed Putin's gain? How is keeping sanctions on Russia Putin's gain?


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20 Feb 2018, 12:36 pm

Maybe a certain sort of martyrdom for Putin?



JohnPowell
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20 Feb 2018, 12:39 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Even with indictments, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. These charges, like the ones brought against four americans, still have nothing to do with a collusion between Trump and Putin. It's like "we gotta issue indictments for whatever we can".


Um, no. The legal tactic has been discussed in headline news. They're releasing these indictments & charges etc in waves designed to make others involved wonder who may have squealed and what they may have said.. as well as to actually get some of them to talk & turn on others.. etc. It's also buying them time to further their investigation. The specific charges and timing of them are deliberate. I bet Mueller & team have a whole lot more than they've let on.


Headline news has lost touch with reality. All speculation and no substance. It's changing from "collusion" to "meddling". No evidence, nothing. Mueller know the Russians cannot be extradited so is likely a way of just getting some kind of mud to stick.


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JohnPowell
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20 Feb 2018, 12:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Maybe a certain sort of martyrdom for Putin?


Ha.


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20 Feb 2018, 2:45 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Reality check.



All this video is is a Trumpite justification of Russian interference in our elections.
And yes, there is a difference. During the Cold War, we believed we were in an existential struggle with a political system that had plotted to destroy us. At least today we can agree that the choices that were made were often wrong. Putin, on the other hand, aggressively wanted to stop his nemesis, Hillary Clinton, from becoming elected, because she had talked mean about him, preferring a compromised puppet like Trump. And with that compromised puppet, Putin is able to exact his revenge on America for humiliating Russia at the end of the Cold War.


Is this post a joke? The US plotted to destroy the Soviet Union, so don't start the story in the middle. Haha cool story. Like I said he is a terrible puppet then. None of this is about collusion. The only collusion that came from it was Flynn and Israel.


Yes, and they plotted to destroy us. As I stated, we were in an existential struggle with them. But back then, we and they knew what each other's intentions were, as that was the Cold War. There isn't supposed to be such a relationship with Russia today.
You conservatives can see only what you want to see, but that doesn't make it so.


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