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13 Russian nationals indicted for meddling in 2016 election

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SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 1:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


To launder money on the massive scale you are referring to, he would have already been perped walked and the evidence would be overwhelming. It would be really difficult to get away with in real estate. I could in theory do it in my industry and it’s very common in fact...



SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 1:50 am

auntblabby wrote:
they don't want anybody to be pure as the driven snow, they want him to be just like they are.
to paraphrase David Stockman, today's right is just a collection of competing gangs all in search of money and power, nothing more. they want somebody just as evil on top.


Same could be said for the left...



goldfish21
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25 Feb 2018, 1:50 am

SH90 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
SH90 wrote:
I’ve done business with Russians... Wonder what I am guilty of :roll:


Have you laundered money through real estate sales for Russian organized criminals? If not, you probably don't have much to worry about.


I have done some large transactions in cash, it’s no uncommon and just run it through the business the same as any other payment... Not my concern how they got it, nor do I care... Hell, I’ve done projects that cost more then the average house. I doubt the realators give a s**t who is buying and selling what properties, as long as their is buyers with money. I’m not “laundering” money for anyone... Even if they make a large profit after I’m done and they flip it. It’s just business and I am sure the realtors feel the same 8)


It's laundering money if the source of funds is criminal.. that's pretty much exactly what money laundering is lol. Large cash payment off the books as possible, they buy an expensive asset like real estate.. hang on to it for a bit, then sell it - presto - clean money from the sale of real property.

Sooo, if you're taking large cash transactions and not questioning the source of funds nor reporting them to the appropriate authorities, you could be unwittingly assisting in someone's money laundering operation. I have no idea if you're even obligated to report such transactions, or if it's only banks who have to do so. Hmm. W/e, you know damned well that when someone is paying a 6-7 figure bill in cash that at the very least they're likely guilty of income tax evasion, never mind actual criminality in the source of funds.


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SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 2:00 am

See if I go around asking people if their criminals, I would be accused of being a racist... Everything I do is documented (not just financials) and reported to IRS as needed; well I don’t do it personally as I have a CPA for that.



EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 2:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


So far it's allegations vs. proven in court, I think, but there are many allegations of trump laundering Russian money through sales of units in his hotel properties.

See the hits on the first page:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+ru ... e&ie=UTF-8


No there aren't any allegations. Just round about speculation. What you got in your trump+russian+money+launder+hotel search was that Trump was a Deutsche Bank customer, and Deutsche Bank happened to be involved in money laundering. But it's unrelated to any business they did with Trump as far as anyone knows. It's worth investigating, but it at this time does not earn Trump an allegation of money laundering and bank and tax fraud. Unless one just hates Trump so much he must be guilty in one's mind.

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for Manafort and Gates: again, these charges are meant to lean on them to get them to roll over on the big Cheeto.


Or so the hypothesis ie hopeful wishful thinking goes.


Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


Fortunately wishful thinking doesn't come into play when one is just interested in the facts.



EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 2:16 am

SH90 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
they don't want anybody to be pure as the driven snow, they want him to be just like they are.
to paraphrase David Stockman, today's right is just a collection of competing gangs all in search of money and power, nothing more. they want somebody just as evil on top.


Same could be said for the left...


Naw, Democrat politicians are all pure as the driven snow, none of them are the least bit interested in money or power.

Actually that might be true of Jimmy Carter, but he's a very rare exception.



auntblabby
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25 Feb 2018, 2:18 am

and his own party $#!+ all over him, but he got the last laugh, he's still alive doing good things while his enemies are somewhere darker and warmer.



EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 2:25 am

In his case the good die young doesn't apply.



Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 2:27 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


So far it's allegations vs. proven in court, I think, but there are many allegations of trump laundering Russian money through sales of units in his hotel properties.

See the hits on the first page:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+ru ... e&ie=UTF-8


No there aren't any allegations. Just round about speculation. What you got in your trump+russian+money+launder+hotel search was that Trump was a Deutsche Bank customer, and Deutsche Bank happened to be involved in money laundering. But it's unrelated to any business they did with Trump as far as anyone knows. It's worth investigating, but it at this time does not earn Trump an allegation of money laundering and bank and tax fraud. Unless one just hates Trump so much he must be guilty in one's mind.

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for Manafort and Gates: again, these charges are meant to lean on them to get them to roll over on the big Cheeto.


Or so the hypothesis ie hopeful wishful thinking goes.


Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


Fortunately wishful thinking doesn't come into play when one is just interested in the facts.


That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


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25 Feb 2018, 2:34 am

SH90 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


To launder money on the massive scale you are referring to, he would have already been perped walked and the evidence would be overwhelming. It would be really difficult to get away with in real estate. I could in theory do it in my industry and it’s very common in fact...


As I understand it, there are ongoing investigations by New York authorities looking in on Trump's business dealings, that have never been closed.


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 2:34 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


My side are those who are just interested in the facts regardless of the outcome. Which includes Mueller if he's doing his job right, and there's no indication that he's not. Although the indictments against the russians seems a bit questionable.



Last edited by EzraS on 25 Feb 2018, 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 2:38 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


My side are those who are just interested in the facts regardless of the outcome. Which includes Mueller if he's doing his job right, and there's no indication that he's not.


Interesting that you have confidence in Mueller. So many conservatives believe he's being controlled by Obama and the Clintons, because Hannity of Fox tells them so.


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 2:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


My side are those who are just interested in the facts regardless of the outcome. Which includes Mueller if he's doing his job right, and there's no indication that he's not.


Interesting that you have confidence in Mueller. So many conservatives believe he's being controlled by Obama and the Clintons, because Hannity of Fox tells them so.


I have never identified as a conservative. And I have never listened to Hannity on Fox. I will though say that I consider Mueller's indictments on the Russians a bit flimsy. Based on my own opinion. If Hannity (whoever that is) shares my opinion, that's a matter of coincidence.



Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 2:50 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


My side are those who are just interested in the facts regardless of the outcome. Which includes Mueller if he's doing his job right, and there's no indication that he's not.


Interesting that you have confidence in Mueller. So many conservatives believe he's being controlled by Obama and the Clintons, because Hannity of Fox tells them so.


I have never identified as a conservative. And I have never listened to Hannity on Fox. I will though say that I consider Mueller's indictments on the Russians a bit flimsy. Based on my own opinion. If Hannity (whoever that is) shares my opinion, that's a matter of coincidence.


I thought you had self-identified as a conservative.
As for Mueller's indictments: I'm pretty certain this is only the start for bigger things to come.


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 3:03 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That statement could be used against your side, as well, particularly since Mueller is going on more than wishful thinking.


My side are those who are just interested in the facts regardless of the outcome. Which includes Mueller if he's doing his job right, and there's no indication that he's not.


Interesting that you have confidence in Mueller. So many conservatives believe he's being controlled by Obama and the Clintons, because Hannity of Fox tells them so.


I have never identified as a conservative. And I have never listened to Hannity on Fox. I will though say that I consider Mueller's indictments on the Russians a bit flimsy. Based on my own opinion. If Hannity (whoever that is) shares my opinion, that's a matter of coincidence.


I thought you had self-identified as a conservative.
As for Mueller's indictments: I'm pretty certain this is only the start for bigger things to come.


I have no idea what I am politically. Maybe I should take a quiz. As for Mueller's indictments, I'm only certain of what's contained in the current facts. Although I have an inkling as far as nailing Trump goes, if that's his ultimate goal, he's basically looking for a needle in a haystack.



EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 10:23 am

EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If only it were that simple......


What's stopping them?