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EzraS
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24 Feb 2018, 7:43 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If only it were that simple......


75% out of 25% seems a pretty clear indicator that it is doable.



EzraS
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24 Feb 2018, 8:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.



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24 Feb 2018, 8:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar-

Whether America deserves it is a whole other matter, but no, clearly we don't want it.
As for your charge that this is just about disgruntled Clinton supporters - - why then is Trump displaying consciousness of guilt? Why does he want to fire Mueller and even his own AG? Why has Mueller gotten guilty pleas and indictments? Plus, people aren't bent out of shape that Clinton lost, but because a corrupt, incompetent, barely literate racist won.


"Why then is Trump displaying consciousness of guilt?"

I don't think he is. How, precisely, is he "displaying" this? What are the signs, the markers, the body language involved?

"Why has Mueller gotten guilty pleas and indictments?"

As someone mentioned before when you brought this up, the 13 were just some low-grade Russian hackers with no connections to anyone within the Republican Party.

"Whether America deserves it is a whole other matter, but no, clearly we don't want it."

Clearly WE (i.e. the rest of the world beyond the Rio Grande and the Canadian border) do not want it either, and yet we constantly get it from you guys. Stop your whingeing and take it like men, not p*****s.


The fact that he's tried to stop the investigation clearly does.
I'm not talking about those hackers, but about those guys in the Trump campaign, such as Manafort and Flynn.
I just realized something - - you're saying two different things. You don't believe Trump colluded with Putin, but you think it's cool that America is getting it's comeuppance from Russia. I think you know Mueller is right, but you want to see America punished. At least be honest.


Okay, I'll clarify.
1. I do not believe that Vladimir Putin did what he is being accused of, for the simple reason that, thus far, there is no evidence to support that idea. Now, I am certainly not trying to defend him when I say this. It's possible he is involved somehow, but I'm yet to be convinced, because we have yet to see anything of substance.
2. Yes, I have to admit to a little schadenfreude that something like this is happening to your country. It's not that I hate the United States (I've never even been there as a tourist), but I most certainly DO hate the hypocrisy, the lies, and the all-round general nastiness that is now emanating from the U.S. From my perspective it looks as though your country is now tearing itself apart, with lunatics wearing pink pussyhats causing havoc on the streets, whilst those on the "Right" being just as bad (if not worse). To be quite honest, it's quite scary. World War 3 could be started by something as simple as a Trump tweet calling the leader of North Korea "Mr. Fatty Rocketman", or something equally juvenile.



EzraS
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24 Feb 2018, 10:43 pm

Lintar wrote:
To be quite honest, it's quite scary. World War 3 could be started by something as simple as a Trump tweet calling the leader of North Korea "Mr. Fatty Rocketman", or something equally juvenile.


I have to disagree that teeny tiny NK attacking the US would equal a world war.



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25 Feb 2018, 12:07 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


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Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 12:20 am

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar-

Whether America deserves it is a whole other matter, but no, clearly we don't want it.
As for your charge that this is just about disgruntled Clinton supporters - - why then is Trump displaying consciousness of guilt? Why does he want to fire Mueller and even his own AG? Why has Mueller gotten guilty pleas and indictments? Plus, people aren't bent out of shape that Clinton lost, but because a corrupt, incompetent, barely literate racist won.


"Why then is Trump displaying consciousness of guilt?"

I don't think he is. How, precisely, is he "displaying" this? What are the signs, the markers, the body language involved?

"Why has Mueller gotten guilty pleas and indictments?"

As someone mentioned before when you brought this up, the 13 were just some low-grade Russian hackers with no connections to anyone within the Republican Party.

"Whether America deserves it is a whole other matter, but no, clearly we don't want it."

Clearly WE (i.e. the rest of the world beyond the Rio Grande and the Canadian border) do not want it either, and yet we constantly get it from you guys. Stop your whingeing and take it like men, not p*****s.


The fact that he's tried to stop the investigation clearly does.
I'm not talking about those hackers, but about those guys in the Trump campaign, such as Manafort and Flynn.
I just realized something - - you're saying two different things. You don't believe Trump colluded with Putin, but you think it's cool that America is getting it's comeuppance from Russia. I think you know Mueller is right, but you want to see America punished. At least be honest.


Okay, I'll clarify.
1. I do not believe that Vladimir Putin did what he is being accused of, for the simple reason that, thus far, there is no evidence to support that idea. Now, I am certainly not trying to defend him when I say this. It's possible he is involved somehow, but I'm yet to be convinced, because we have yet to see anything of substance.
2. Yes, I have to admit to a little schadenfreude that something like this is happening to your country. It's not that I hate the United States (I've never even been there as a tourist), but I most certainly DO hate the hypocrisy, the lies, and the all-round general nastiness that is now emanating from the U.S. From my perspective it looks as though your country is now tearing itself apart, with lunatics wearing pink pussyhats causing havoc on the streets, whilst those on the "Right" being just as bad (if not worse). To be quite honest, it's quite scary. World War 3 could be started by something as simple as a Trump tweet calling the leader of North Korea "Mr. Fatty Rocketman", or something equally juvenile.


Putin's done the same thing to other countries, so why wouldn't he do it to America? He has hacker farms available to him that we know he's used to infiltrate American social media, and various sites to sway public opinion.
Women wearing pink pussycat hats aren't tearing up the streets, but are conducting the time honored, American tradition of public protest. In fact, few of the Anti-Trump demonstrations have been violent, but it is the violent ones that tend to get the most attention by the media. If it bleeds, it leads.
Careful with schadenfreude, because what goes around eventually comes around.
I very much agree with you concerning Trump's juvenile insults toward Kim. That should give you pause about giving the Cheeto any support.


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 12:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign. However interestingly enough Manafort, Podesta and Clinton were all involved with Ukraine.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?



Last edited by EzraS on 25 Feb 2018, 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

goldfish21
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25 Feb 2018, 12:55 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


So far it's allegations vs. proven in court, I think, but there are many allegations of trump laundering Russian money through sales of units in his hotel properties.

See the hits on the first page:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+ru ... e&ie=UTF-8


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Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 1:01 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


What Goldfish said.
As for Manafort and Gates: again, these charges are meant to lean on them to get them to roll over on the big Cheeto.


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SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 1:01 am

I’ve done business with Russians... Wonder what I am guilty of :roll:



goldfish21
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25 Feb 2018, 1:17 am

SH90 wrote:
I’ve done business with Russians... Wonder what I am guilty of :roll:


Have you laundered money through real estate sales for Russian organized criminals? If not, you probably don't have much to worry about.

IMO Trump is likely hella guilty of laundering money for Russian mafia. So many people are complicit in this sort of thing. Trump just did it on a massive scale and so he'll likely get a legal smack for it. It's a white collar crime that helps evade a whole lot of taxes on cash income sooo it harms working class people etc etc.. but it's not like he's the only one doing it. (still doesn't make it right)

Pretty much the entire city where I live is reliant on international money laundering to a MASSIVE extent it's not even funny.. Billions upon Billions of dollars have flooded into our real estate market & the Canadian banks and property developers, realtors, lawyers, mortgage brokers, loan officers etc are all guilty as sin of assisting in it's facilitation.

I bet Trump's guilty.. but oh noes, he's guilty of being greedy.. like countless other people. It's not exactly a victimless crime, buuut..


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EzraS
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25 Feb 2018, 1:18 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


So far it's allegations vs. proven in court, I think, but there are many allegations of trump laundering Russian money through sales of units in his hotel properties.

See the hits on the first page:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+ru ... e&ie=UTF-8


No there aren't any allegations. Just round about speculation. What you got in your trump+russian+money+launder+hotel search was that Trump was a Deutsche Bank customer, and Deutsche Bank happened to be involved in money laundering. But it's unrelated to any business they did with Trump as far as anyone knows. It's worth investigating, but it at this time does not earn Trump an allegation of money laundering and bank and tax fraud. Unless one just hates Trump so much he must be guilty in one's mind.

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for Manafort and Gates: again, these charges are meant to lean on them to get them to roll over on the big Cheeto.


Or so the hypothesis ie hopeful wishful thinking goes.



SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 1:42 am

goldfish21 wrote:
SH90 wrote:
I’ve done business with Russians... Wonder what I am guilty of :roll:


Have you laundered money through real estate sales for Russian organized criminals? If not, you probably don't have much to worry about.


I have done some large transactions in cash, it’s no uncommon and just run it through the business the same as any other payment... Not my concern how they got it, nor do I care... Hell, I’ve done projects that cost more then the average house. I doubt the realators give a s**t who is buying and selling what properties, as long as their is buyers with money. I’m not “laundering” money for anyone... Even if they make a large profit after I’m done and they flip it. It’s just business and I am sure the realtors feel the same 8)



Last edited by SH90 on 25 Feb 2018, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 1:44 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pizzagate was an insane hoax, but Mueller's indictments and plea deals is proof that Russiagate is not.


How is that the case when none of it has anything to do with russiagate. Money laundering, bank and tax fraud yes, russiagate no.


Because colluding with Russia doesn't stand alone. The money laundering, and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia are things that Trump has been involved with for years now, and is tied ultimately to the collusion.


The crimes Manafort has been indicted for were committed before Trump ran for president and involved Ukraine. It's been clearly stated that the charges against Manafort and Gates don’t relate to any allegations of misconduct during Trump’s campaign.

What evidence is there that Trump has been involved in money laundering and bank and tax fraud in regard to Russia?


So far it's allegations vs. proven in court, I think, but there are many allegations of trump laundering Russian money through sales of units in his hotel properties.

See the hits on the first page:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+ru ... e&ie=UTF-8


No there aren't any allegations. Just round about speculation. What you got in your trump+russian+money+launder+hotel search was that Trump was a Deutsche Bank customer, and Deutsche Bank happened to be involved in money laundering. But it's unrelated to any business they did with Trump as far as anyone knows. It's worth investigating, but it at this time does not earn Trump an allegation of money laundering and bank and tax fraud. Unless one just hates Trump so much he must be guilty in one's mind.

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for Manafort and Gates: again, these charges are meant to lean on them to get them to roll over on the big Cheeto.


Or so the hypothesis ie hopeful wishful thinking goes.


Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


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25 Feb 2018, 1:46 am

they don't want anybody to be pure as the driven snow, they want him to be just like they are.
to paraphrase David Stockman, today's right is just a collection of competing gangs all in search of money and power, nothing more. they want somebody just as evil on top.



SH90
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25 Feb 2018, 1:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Or it's wishful thinking that Trump's as pure as the driven snow.


To launder money on the massive scale you are referring to, he would have already been perped walked and the evidence would be overwhelming. It would be really difficult to get away with in real estate. I could in theory do it in my industry and it’s very common in fact...