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Im done with this place, and you should be too.

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RetroGamer87
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21 Feb 2018, 4:14 pm

jadix wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
jadix wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Alex was doing something in partnership with Autism Speaks at some point. Sorry that I don't recall anything more specific. It was announced on that homepage years ago. About the same time much of the WP population was turning against Autism Speaks. So I recall being puzzled that he would do that.


Could you explain why Autism Speaks gets a bad rep here , I've read a few things when researching which were useful and nothing seemed out of place ( I havent read everything though ). What have I missed ?


I heard that the studies they do want to find a specific gene that causes autism, and promote abortion of the fetuses that have it. Whether or not this is true I don't know. I did not like a commercial they had that was banned, saying autism destroys your marriage, ruins your life, it was quite negative. And it is said they don't let many people with autism represent themselves. I don't know how much of this is true, but if it is I am opposed to the organization too. I hope it is exaggerated, but who knows.


Should I infer that if you were pregnant and you knew the baby had autism, you would not abort for that reason?


I don't think selectively picking out people based on genetics to eliminate is a good thing. They allow abortions later in term with down syndrome. It is one thing to go to a genetic counselor to see if you have genes that might pass on something fatal, aborting is taking it a step further. What does that say about the people who have it, if one of the biggest advocates of the disorders solution is to eliminate people with the disorder. I know that things like down syndrome and autism make life more challenging, I don't want to live in a world without these people. To me it is like saying we wish you were never born

The trouble is, some people wish they were never born. Perhaps when I place less value on my own life it causes me to value other lives less. Depression makes life seem cheap.


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smudgedhorizon
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21 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

^^^I wish I was never born.


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jadix
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21 Feb 2018, 5:34 pm

On the topic of the actual forum originally. I don't think we should hate anyone, we are people, and that's all that matters. I have nothing against any group of people. I think many people who don't have autism wish they were never born. You don't know what life is going to be like for anyone until their born. The problem I have with abortion it takes the choice out of the hands of the one it belongs to. Some people say that people are a burden, I believe that is never a good reason. I don't hate the people that are targeting the gene, I think the action is abhorrent not the individual.



Lintar
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22 Feb 2018, 6:14 pm

KB8CWB wrote:
Using genetic screening be it for Down's Syndrome or Autism is plain evil! It is eliminating diversity and people simply because we are different and perceived to be "defective".


Diversity, in and of itself, is not inherently a good thing. Diversity, for the sake of diversity, is not something noble. My point about not using abortions as a method of elimination of undesirable traits was that it is inherently wrong to kill, wrong to commit what is in effect murder. I believe other methods should be developed to accomplish the same goal of ridding the world of genetic defects like Down's Syndrome and autism. I just thought I should clarify that.

KB8CWB wrote:
I won't mention the country that is aiming for 100% elimination of Down's and they are almost there.


Is it Iceland?

KB8CWB wrote:
Here in the US I'd like to think this wouldn't become a reality. What I see more is forcing the prospective parent(s) to agree that they have to burden 100% of the health costs for said child is more likely. It's all about money here and whatever the government decides on or allows (loophole or otherwise), the insurance industry will certainly take advantage of that!


Yet one more reason to be thankful I do not live in the U.S.



RetroGamer87
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22 Feb 2018, 10:00 pm

Is it moral to abort a child with downs syndrome if you know you can't afford to care for him?


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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2018, 10:07 pm

I don't believe it's "moral" to abort a child with Down Syndrome, period.



CockneyRebel
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23 Feb 2018, 1:02 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe it's "moral" to abort a child with Down Syndrome, period.


Neither do I. I don't think it's moral to abort any unborn baby.


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rift42
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23 Feb 2018, 9:23 am

For the most part I think it boils down to the usual abortion question: At what point does a fetus become a person? If you believe that this is at conception, than abortion for any reason is clearly wrong. I don't see an early fetus to be much of anything personally, so am comfortable with the idea of abortion.

I don't really see Down Syndrome and Autism to be similar at all. Autism is extremely polygenic with positive and negative characteristics, and no current way of determining if someone is going to be high functioning, low function, with a good or bad mix of characteristics etc any more than we can make other complex predictions of how someone will arrive in the world.

Down, Patau, and Edward syndromes are all from extra chromosomes with very significant resulting issues beyond just intellectual ones. They tend to be wonderful people if they survive their issues, but I don't really fault parents for not wanting to bring a person into the world that will have severe health problems across multiple domains.