Quote accurately depicts issues with diagnosis

Page 2 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,717
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

23 Feb 2018, 7:26 am

@tallsUK & Seff: What do you want? A test that everyone scores the same on?
"Why is my ship on the rocks?"
"Oh, It's OK. The Captain is really smart, but when the wind shifted, he got confused."
There are tests for rapid thinking, but if the ordinary time limit is not enough, it is hard to earn a salary. The test for really deep thinking is a PhD. Perhaps your objection is to the general ignorance of the variety of tests, and their limits. People commonly expect IQ to be an adequate substitute for EQ, when it is more a case of one precluding the other by using up most of the brain cells.



TallsUK
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 13 Mar 2016
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 46
Location: London

23 Feb 2018, 8:48 am

Dear_one wrote:
@tallsUK & Seff: What do you want? A test that everyone scores the same on?
"Why is my ship on the rocks?"
"Oh, It's OK. The Captain is really smart, but when the wind shifted, he got confused."
There are tests for rapid thinking, but if the ordinary time limit is not enough, it is hard to earn a salary. The test for really deep thinking is a PhD. Perhaps your objection is to the general ignorance of the variety of tests, and their limits. People commonly expect IQ to be an adequate substitute for EQ, when it is more a case of one precluding the other by using up most of the brain cells.


I was simply pointing out that IQ tests standardised for non-autistics are not relevant to autistics. I assume at some point someone will standardise a test for autistics but until then IQ is just not relevant.

I dont really see the point of an IQ scale. Whilst they do tend to show good correlation with a lot of important things, such as salaries, these things are also influenced by a huge variety of other things such as parental wealth and culture.

We all have an idea of our own strengths and weaknesses compared to others but to turn one specific aspect into a numerical scale serves little value. The tests therefore are actually of little use.

Of course, it maybe human nature to want to compare yourself to your neighbour and say I am better or worse because X,Y or Z and in that sense IQ tests are very useful for some people.



Seff
Raven
Raven

Joined: 2 Apr 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 101
Location: North Wales

23 Feb 2018, 9:27 am

Dear_one wrote:
@tallsUK & Seff: What do you want? A test that everyone scores the same on?
"Why is my ship on the rocks?"
"Oh, It's OK. The Captain is really smart, but when the wind shifted, he got confused."
There are tests for rapid thinking, but if the ordinary time limit is not enough, it is hard to earn a salary. The test for really deep thinking is a PhD. Perhaps your objection is to the general ignorance of the variety of tests, and their limits. People commonly expect IQ to be an adequate substitute for EQ, when it is more a case of one precluding the other by using up most of the brain cells.


I might be wrong but I’m detecting some hostility in that post, if not then nothing to see here, carry on with your day.

If so then I shall try to elaborate and clear up what I meant.

I do have a university degree so I have been able to function at higher education levels - I’m not saying IQ tests are the only and best way of measureing intelligence, I was only stating that an IQ test I once took said it marked you on how quick you were able to answer the questions, but it was on a per question basis which made me that little more anxious that caused me to re-read several questions more than I might have normally, costing me time.
If the test said you had a set amount of time to answer all the questions then I would probably fair better as I could speed through questions I could answer quickly and leave myself a bit more time for the ones I’d need a few more minutes to get my head around.

I also hold down a fairly decent job in engineering, mainly because I’m so mechanically minded I can see problems and solutions to said problems before my NT colleagues even realise there’s going to be a problem.

My problems (mainly) lie socially, where I can’t engage in recreational conversation properly. I freeze up and can’t think or speak, so back to the point about IQ tests - I might score higher than average, but that’s not going to be any indication of my social problems, which an EQ test would pick up on (I assume you mean Empathy Quotient?)

If we were to develop a way of truly measuring human intelligence then it would probably consist of many different tests to build a fuller picture of someone’s mind, but then we will probably always have the problem that some people are better with learning theory and others are best at learning practically.... so we will probably never develop a true test of intelligence due to so many different factors that need to be taken into account.


Sorry if that was a bit long winded, but I currently feel like everything I say or do round here upsets someone so I’m over explaining for the sake of debate and clarity (not that there’s probably much clarity in my ramblings :lol: )

Edit:
I feel the need to re-iterate that my comments about IQ level and types of autism were things I’d recently read regarding medical classifications of types of autism.
I can’t remember where it was, could of been some psychiatrists incorrect ramblings.


_________________
Confirmed ASD as of 19/12/17

Your neurodiverse score: 177 of 200
Your neurotypical score: 34 of 200


Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,717
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

23 Feb 2018, 2:55 pm

Please don't mistake sarcasm for hostility. I'm trying to help with your perspective.



nephets
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 3 Feb 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 336
Location: North Yorkshire

23 Feb 2018, 4:05 pm

I hate the whole 'high functioning-low-functioning' concept, which is really annoying to me. I suppose I must be high functioning as I have a job, a wife and a family. Does that make life less hellish, some of the time, though? Nooooo. Could I get out of bed every day, without prozac? Nope. The whole concept is flawed and diminishes the extent of our Disability. I was once told I'm high functioning, because I do function, but if being able to function is the extent of your ambition, that's pretty sad, is it not? Being slightly less disabled is not exactly easy.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,570
Location: Calne,England

23 Feb 2018, 4:26 pm

IstominFan wrote:
. In ordinary life, high functioning, verbal people get "If you can do X, why can't you do Y" all the time.


I think it can be hard for a lot of people to grasp that good verbally doesn't necessarily equal good non-verbally. I'm good verbally but there's a lot of practical stuff I totally suck at.



Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,717
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

23 Feb 2018, 4:37 pm

"High Functioning" is like the GDP, of interest primarily to economists and other beancounters. Often quoted, but not much of an indication of quality of life.



IstominFan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2016
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,114
Location: Santa Maria, CA.

24 Feb 2018, 10:39 am

firemonkey,

Same here. I am terrible with mechanical things and I can't always duplicate physical tasks in the exact way people specify, particularly when I'm anxious. People tell me "You don't want to do this," but that isn't true. In fact, I want to show people I can do things and I wind up completely freezing and messing up.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,570
Location: Calne,England

24 Feb 2018, 10:55 am

Istominfan-I'm missing the "Good at mechanical things" gene.



blazingstar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2017
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,234

24 Feb 2018, 8:37 pm

Dear_one wrote:
"High Functioning" is like the GDP, of interest primarily to economists and other beancounters. Often quoted, but not much of an indication of quality of life.


Exactly. It is used to determine eligibility for benefits and doesn't say much at all about the experience. I'd like to find words that reflect that experience.


_________________
The river is the melody
And sky is the refrain
- Gordon Lightfoot


Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,717
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

24 Feb 2018, 9:09 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
"High Functioning" is like the GDP, of interest primarily to economists and other beancounters. Often quoted, but not much of an indication of quality of life.


Exactly. It is used to determine eligibility for benefits and doesn't say much at all about the experience. I'd like to find words that reflect that experience.


Well, in the U.S., folks are only allowed "the pursuit of happiness" - there are certainly never any guarantees. Some situations seem to need a miracle, or a completely fresh start in a new direction at least. There are some attempts at gauging "wellness" and "quality of life" but I've only ever seen a health service deliver suicide prevention. My counsellor really appreciated me saying that I considered my improvements something she worked on with free overtime.



starcats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2017
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 531

24 Feb 2018, 10:10 pm

TallsUK wrote:
disability is measured against an imaginary social norm.


This should be a t-shirt, website, book title, tattoo...anything motto. The idea that social norms are imaginary is something I should remember more often.



bumbleme
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 23 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 99
Location: Australia

25 Feb 2018, 5:50 am

Seff wrote:
bumbleme wrote:
I don't like this giving IQ scores to non-verbal autistic people. Because a person with that type of autism can't be tested they get a low score? And then they are severely limited by low expectations. (I'm assuming this. I don't know any "low functioning" people personally.)


Yeah sorry if I offended anyone with that post, I was only going off what I’d read, and realised afterwards I might have appeared insensitive to high-functioning Autism.

If it’s any consolation, I don’t think IQ tests are necessarily a good way of measuring intelligence as there are so many ways of taking a test and not everyone works in the same way.

I took an online IQ test once, and part of it’s measuring of IQ seemed to be how quick you answered the questions, now personally I tend to take longer to answer questions as I try to think them through thoroughly, and under pressure I take longer again - so that particular test isn’t really going to give me an accurate representation of my IQ anyway.

I might not be able to answer questions quickly, but given enough time I’m fairly confident I can figure anything out.

Apologies again if I caused any offence to anyone
:oops:

I wasn't offended by what you posted. I just get bit upset with how long it takes "professionals" to catch up to these things. I flipped through a couple of recent publications in my uni's library and they are still publishing the lie that non-verbal = low-IQ. Those who can communicate through writing are "isolated cases". It's intellectually impaired unless proven otherwise.