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thinkinginpictures
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24 Feb 2018, 2:48 pm

With the recent marches and up-coming election in Italy, the League Party - a Fascist party (they even call themselves fascists - they won't hide it, like Germany's AFD is trying to hide its nazi-ideology) can now govern Italy.

They are friends of Stalin.. eh, I mean Putin.

Poland's recent decline into totalitarian fascist dictatorship along with Orban's Hungary is likewise worrying, and so is the rise of AFD in Germany and Front National in France.

My question:

Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?

This is the 1930's again and again!

:evil:



Lovecraft
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24 Feb 2018, 5:17 pm

AFD is just some sh***y small government and market liberalist, American style conservative party.
It's far from being fascist or national socialist.
I don't se how being against immigration and using nationalistic rhetoric makes you a fascist or a nazi?

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?

This is the 1930's again and again!

:evil:

Because democracy is weak and ineffective.



Pepe
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24 Feb 2018, 6:50 pm

Right wing politics is gaining popularity in part due to the open border policy allowing mass refugee immigration...
Wasn't this the main reason for Brexit?

Quote:
Immigration

Lord Ashcroft's election day poll of 12,369 voters also discovered that 'One third (33%) [of leave voters] said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”'[8]

Immediately prior to the referendum data from Ipsos-Mori showed that immigration/migration was the most cited issue when Britons were asked 'What do you see as the most/other important issue facing Britain today?' with 48% of respondents mentioning it when surveyed.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of ... mmigration



sly279
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24 Feb 2018, 7:13 pm

For thousands of years they were ruled by Kings, emperors, and queens. Europeans prefer to be ruled , they use to being told what to do when to do it. It’s why Russians love putin. He’s a strong dominant leader who tells them what to do and when to do it. Many Europeans are the same. Life’s less complicated when you give most your control over to a government. Though it’s less free but we were given too much freedom due to distance from the king and thus we grew to be independent and this when king tried to reinstate his rule we rebelled. So they haven’t forgotten they history at all they just use to and like being controlled(not all obviously)
They have less privacy and freedom in Europe but don’t cry out about it like we do in us.



adifferentname
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24 Feb 2018, 8:53 pm

Pepe wrote:
Right wing politics is gaining popularity in part due to the open border policy allowing mass refugee immigration...
Wasn't this the main reason for Brexit?


The main reason for 'Brexit' was Farage's tireless campaigning for two decades, culminating in a rise in popularity that scared the Tories into offering a referendum. His primary concern was with diminishing sovereignty of the EU member states in general, and of the UK in particular.

The reasons people voted were many and varied, with broken promise after broken promise on net migration figures definitely a factor for many voters (including some of those who voted remain), but that isn't to say that the "main reason for Brexit" was mass immigration.

As for Europe "returning to Fascist ideology", I think the OP should provide their definition of "Fascism" as I don't believe it an apt description of any prominent party or movement in Europe unless you define it broadly enough that it incorporates the entire political spectrum.



Mikah
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25 Feb 2018, 12:17 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?


The ones who didn't learn from history are the morons who thought mass immigration was a brilliant idea. Disrupt the ethnic, cultural or religious demographics of a territory and you get ethnic, cultural or religious conflict. It's not rocket science.


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Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 1:17 am

Mikah wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?


The ones who didn't learn from history are the morons who thought mass immigration was a brilliant idea. Disrupt the ethnic, cultural or religious demographics of a territory and you get ethnic, cultural or religious conflict. It's not rocket science.


In enlightened societies, though, eventually pluralism is embraced.
I know, in places in my own US, as well as Northern Ireland, and the former Yugoslavia, the word enlightened doesn't apply. But I like to think those are the exceptions in the industrialized west.


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Mikah
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25 Feb 2018, 1:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Mikah wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?


The ones who didn't learn from history are the morons who thought mass immigration was a brilliant idea. Disrupt the ethnic, cultural or religious demographics of a territory and you get ethnic, cultural or religious conflict. It's not rocket science.


In enlightened societies, though, eventually pluralism is embraced.
I know, in places in my own US, as well as Northern Ireland, and the former Yugoslavia, the word enlightened doesn't apply. But I like to think those are the exceptions in the industrialized west.


Is "enlightened" code for "suicidally stupid"? I always thought enlightened meant wiser and more rational. "Pluralistic society" is an oxymoron... how can an enlightened society not understand this? The West is not enlightened, it has actually regressed intellectually in the past half century.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Feb 2018, 2:00 am

Mass immigration wouldn’t have been a problem or causing conflict if the quality criteria were higher.



Kraichgauer
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25 Feb 2018, 2:16 am

Mikah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mikah wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?


The ones who didn't learn from history are the morons who thought mass immigration was a brilliant idea. Disrupt the ethnic, cultural or religious demographics of a territory and you get ethnic, cultural or religious conflict. It's not rocket science.


In enlightened societies, though, eventually pluralism is embraced.
I know, in places in my own US, as well as Northern Ireland, and the former Yugoslavia, the word enlightened doesn't apply. But I like to think those are the exceptions in the industrialized west.


Is "enlightened" code for "suicidally stupid"? I always thought enlightened meant wiser and more rational. "Pluralistic society" is an oxymoron... how can an enlightened society not understand this? The West is not enlightened, it has actually regressed intellectually in the past half century.


I like to point to the continuing American experiment in regard to pluralism's success.


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traven
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25 Feb 2018, 2:23 am



now that everything is fascist that's easy
how bout "europe' the totally unelected bankers powergrab,
the people got indebted by saving the banks, that's the story, and out of this comes a tyranny by banks

and the impunity of politicians to sell out their country needs to be corrected
in any imaginairy justice system

but confusion and fear butter many breads



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25 Feb 2018, 2:56 am

Europeans have always been facist. The boarders of the countries change but the cultural identity of the people does not. This is how Germans ended up in Poland and WWII was started.

If people want to immigrate there, that's on them. My ancestors had the right idea when they decided to leave.



Lovecraft
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25 Feb 2018, 3:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I like to point to the continuing American experiment in regard to pluralism's success.

How is american pluralism/multiculturalism successful? You have several ethnic enclaves and a large black population that haven't integrated properly even after several hundred years.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Feb 2018, 3:33 am

Chronos wrote:
Europeans have always been facist. The boarders of the countries change but the cultural identity of the people does not. This is how Germans ended up in Poland and WWII was started.

If people want to immigrate there, that's on them. My ancestors had the right idea when they decided to leave.



Honestly, was Israel necessary since the US was accepting all European Jews with open arms?



Lovecraft
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25 Feb 2018, 3:33 am

Chronos wrote:
Europeans have always been facist. The boarders of the countries change but the cultural identity of the people does not. This is how Germans ended up in Poland and WWII was started.

If people want to immigrate there, that's on them. My ancestors had the right idea when they decided to leave.

How can Europe have always been fascist? The ideology have only existed for roughly one hundred years.



Chronos
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25 Feb 2018, 3:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Europeans have always been facist. The boarders of the countries change but the cultural identity of the people does not. This is how Germans ended up in Poland and WWII was started.

If people want to immigrate there, that's on them. My ancestors had the right idea when they decided to leave.



Honestly, was Israel necessary since the US was accepting all European Jews with open arms?


There were a few hundred thousand jews who wished to flee their home countries due to continuing violence against them, and the U.S. was not willing to increase the immigration quota for jews. Many of them fled to the UK and other European countries only to be placed in refugee camps. The British had control over Palestine and 250,000 jews attempted to flee there only to be intercepted by the British, who were refusing entry to jews due to objection from the local Arabs. President Truman successfully pressured Britain to allow 100,000 jews into Palestine. There were already jews in this region at the time but they were a minority. After the influx of refugees, a movement began to establish the state of Israel.

Consider at the time that jews didn't want to stay in Europe, Europe didn't want jews to stay in Europe, the United States didn't want to take hundreds of thousands of jewish refugees, and there is a prophecy held by both jews and christians that the messiah will come back and return jews to their homeland.

So creating the state of Israel seemed like a lucrative option for all parties involved, except the "Arabs", who were apparently sorely underestimated in all of this.

Europe traded jews for "Arabs". What irony.