13 Apr 2018, 10:19 am
@Esmerelda Weatherwax
I'm sorry to hear that the thread has led your mind to painful thoughts, Esme. My thoughts are with you, and I hope that some time out for contemplation brings you to a better place. 
To all:
I am not disappointed or annoyed in any way with any of the posts in this thread, and nobody has said anything which I find at all inappropriate, or even "off topic". When I make a new thread, I always try to make it clear if I would prefer posts to stay bounded by specific themes. Otherwise, I see them as catalysts for conversation, and it is safe to assume that I have no problem at all with any of the unforeseeable twists and turns which that implies. Aside from the very rare cases where I'm asking for specific help, I never see myself as the "owner" or "curator" of a thread simply because I made the first post; quite the opposite, I am often led to the most profound insights and break my frustrating circular modes of thinking through the chance tangents taken by the reactions of other posters.
"Many a true word is said in jest."
If there were no contrast between how autistic people are currently treated and how we might be treated in some other society, real or mythological, the sentiments of the original post would never had occurred to me in the first place. The original thought may have seemed a light-hearted observation, but there's no doubt that inspiration would never have struck if it weren't for my own lifelong experiences of bullying and exclusion. If it has led on to discussion of more serious themes, that is all well and good. 
18 Apr 2018, 2:27 pm
I only realized this week that I had not actually retired from a job - I retired from being abused. Nonabusive folks I knew on the job (but generally never reported to, more's the pity) were astonished when I retired and were sure I'd be bored to tears within weeks. Nope.
As God is my witness, I will never work for another "human" being again, I'll starve if that's my only option.
So I actually have a pretty good idea what it feels like to be a mistreated eccentric because of my Aspie traits. I guess I don't reveal that enough here, or maybe at all.
And merely retelling it has sickened and exhausted me, so I'm going to log out and go read some online news & stuff. Not your fault, I was talking past you somehow, and that's on me.
Have a good evening, my friend.
Oh. Oh, my. I spend a fair bit of time not paying attention to emotions, because I don't have a great deal of vocabulary to describe them, but then they pop out and derail me at the most inopportune moments.
I've been away from work for a bit due to health problems - some mine (a corneal ulcer possibly related to lupus) and some not (father's brand-new Alzheimer's diagnosis). I don't deal at all well with medical procedures, but despite the anxiety and unhappiness pursuant to the amount of time I've had to spend in that environment recently, I had at least distantly noticed that I seemed to be feeling fairly...upbeat. Positive. Dare I say happy?
Time marches on, my eye is better, I can drive again, and I'm back at work. And miserable.
Cringing on the inside as I walk back into this place, where my assistant works off the clock because my boss won't stop her, and I'm the only one in the vicinity who thinks this is a problem.
Where people come in to my office to "borrow" the key to the vending machine, since apparently if I'm not here to defend it, it's considered acceptable to just pop the thing open and take food from it.
Where it seems over the past few weeks I've lost the ability to ignore people nonchalantly describing me as weird, strange, "so smart but just bizarre really". I'm not out as an Aspie at work, and I suppose if I were they'd have to stop saying things like that, but I'm amazed at how it stings when I've been away from it for a while.
So when I read the phrase, "I had not actually retired from a job - I retired from being abused," I startled myself by bursting into tears, because it's such a perfect distillation of my current experience. I hate it here. I hate that my office is a zoo habitat where they pause to peer in at the one who doesn't belong. I don't hate these people, but I am realizing that I could walk away from every last one of them today, never see them again, and lose nothing thereby.
I have begun a retirement countdown. 1,261 days to go.
Thank you, Madame Weatherwax, for crystallizing my necessary course of action.
18 Apr 2018, 3:44 pm
18 Apr 2018, 8:06 pm
22 Apr 2018, 6:11 am
I went there to see if there was any way I could access counselling with an autism-trained therapist (there is one locally, but I cannot afford to pay for this privately.) As I expected, he spent most of his time trying to get me to accept a prescription for this or that anti-depressant. Part of his argument was that it appeared from my medical records that they were effective, which I know full well they aren't - most have been counter-productive if anything; I have plenty of "brain fog" already without taking something that makes thinking straight even harder.
So I pointed out to him the other obvious correlation. Whenever I was being treated with the meds, I was also given a doctor's note to allow me time off work, at times for several months. My lack of faith in the treatments which were offered, and general aversion to dealing with authority, also meant that an approaching crisis at work was the only time I ever sought help. In short, I got better because I was finally away from the toxic environment that was causing me to burn out, and was the reason for the low self-esteem, anxiety and depression. Of course, he then had to give me the lecture about how psychologists have "proved" that employment improves everyone's self esteem (I gave him a lecture back about how psychology is not the same as mind reading, and the statistical properties of population distributions.)
I have felt totally in a bind since my diagnosis (I haven't had a job since a few months before that.) I do want to find a useful occupation where I can contribute to society and not be dependent on state benefits. I don't feel that self-employment is really an option due to my executive functioning impairments (I have tried working from home in the past, which was a dismal failure, and have been in debt many times due to my own financial mismanagement even when I've had a reasonable income.) But the idea of another 20 years or more of burning out after only a few years of employment and then taking several more years to get back on my feet, in an endless loop, fills me with dread.
I am sorry Trogluddite but your GP is talking rubbish and doesn't know much about mental health other than prescribing meds.
Finding employment can help some people with self-esteem issues if this is what was causing the problem in the first place. However! If your job is causing your problems then it makes sense to either leave that job, take a break or get some other kind of help. The way forward can be many paths.
There is also plenty of research evidence which says that a combination of antidepressants and counselling is more effective than either alone. It really does depend on what is happening for the person seeking help.
There are services in your area that you can access without a referral from your doctor. Charities tend to be quite a good place to start. Some will ask for a donation but if you are not working will usually waver the donation.
The NHS counselling service at my local GP surgery is useless. It is not counselling but a quick way to get you to go to a local course. I managed to bypass mine and get a higher level of help because I kept badgering another service which was linked to these counsellors.
I have noticed that the York Mind service has closed it's waiting list for counselling and have some other services they recommend. Not know much about York I cannot help much further but I do know there is help out there and sometimes difficult to find and access.
If you want any more help or pointers feel free to pm me.
22 Apr 2018, 10:27 am
^ Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Temeraire.
I'll be honest, I was rather venting out of frustration with my current situation around getting the help that I need. Also, in part, I think I feel it more strongly because I have been fortunate enough to have had a taste of how much better the support could be. The last counsellor that I saw had a lot of experience of dealing with autistic people, unlike any of those that I had seen over the previous 25 years, and it really highlighted to me how and why the previous therapy had been so ineffective, and clarified exactly what kind of help would be most beneficial in the future. Had I not had the fortune of seeing that counsellor (it was by coincidence rather than design), I would not even have been referred for my diagnosis.
Within travelling distance (Yorkshire is big!), I have found only one organisation which provides the kind of services that I'm looking for. However, they are not accessible via the NHS, and require a "funding stream" of some kind in order to register as a service user. Lacking the means to access this privately, I can only get access via the local council's disability services, which I'm finding very difficult - the "learning disabilities" section is the nearest match for people with autism, and my good academic performance seemingly counts against me. Assuming that I can clear that hurdle, it is then expected that I will pay a contribution from PIP benefit, for which I have a second appeal tribunal next month, over two years after my initial application. I then found out a couple of weeks ago that the advocacy organisation which has been helping me with all this have succumbed to the latest local authority cutbacks (they are one of several which closed down at the start of this tax year.) So I now have no advocate at a very critical time, and no arrangements have even been made for me to access the case notes and other documentation that they were managing on my behalf.
The level of persistence and dealing with authority that's required, for over two years now, is seriously grinding me down - it burns me out in just the same way as my previous employment has done. Ironically, one of the areas of specific help that has been identified is with maintaining communication; e.g. aversion to using the telephone and poor management of mail, bills, personal documentation etc. It feels like a catch-22 - to get access to the assistance that I need, I need assistance with gaining access, and there seems to be no recognition that the processes involved are themselves extremely demanding for someone with the kind of autistic traits which I have.
When I was diagnosed, my diagnostic report was very clear about the kinds of assistance that should be tried to help me move my life forward (primarily ASC specific counselling, occupational therapy.) I thought that after 45 years, this might be the impetus that would finally open doors to some interventions that would help me to make some profound positive changes to my life. Instead, I find myself often wondering what the point of getting a diagnosis was, and subject to the additional stress of dealing with multiple authorities who have no understanding of my condition and seemingly delight in putting as many barriers up as they can in the name of "austerity".
The only concrete positive outcomes of it so far has been my discovery of places like this one, and the kindness of other autistic people - for that, I am profoundly thankful.
20 Jun 2018, 8:58 pm
I've missed you all. Am profoundly embarrassed at myself but hoping that will pass. I did need to go, and now I need just as truly to come back. Thank God, I'm not the first, anyway.
Had to drop my therapist - will discuss that elsewhere, it'd be a major threadjack here.
Trog, I am flabbergasted that people w/o Aspergers so routinely criticize *us* for lacking "theory of mind" when they are often so utterly unable to envision what life looks like from our perspective! That's the same thing!
You talk about being driven to seek help only when you're in extremis... and the incredibly narrow pigeonholing that you have to deal with (as if someone with a 4.0 average [top marks, in the US, at least when I was in uni] can't have learning disabilities in other areas - ye gods, that really isn't rocket science). I feel frustration on your behalf, there's little or nothing for adults, really. Again, a defect in "theory of mind" - inability to envision anyone needing support/advice after they leave school, I suppose...
MissChess, I actually found myself looking forward to a root canal at one point, because it meant I had a really solid reason for not going to work (I was managing a multidepartmental collaborative project and there were so many jerks involved that I came home exhausted every day and had to work weekends, when the jerks were all at home, to attend to my other duties). When it turned out that I needed a DOUBLE root canal I wanted to turn cartwheels and set off fireworks, because THAT meant I didn't have to go back to the office immediately after the proc*; I could stay home that day and the next. That was 14 years ago. I changed jobs three times after, looking for less toxic environments without having to leave the place where my retirement was vested; no luck, but I lasted long enough to retire. I had to work very hard to reframe *that* as sufficient success, but now it's quite easy to think so. Good luck to you. This windy narrative is meant to show that I *can* relate, massively, to the escape provided by a corneal ulcer...
*Yes, was entirely capable of finishing a workday after a root canal. Aspie strong. Also well aware that none of my colleagues or superiors would lift a finger to take care of any of my work while I was out, because they never did; which motivates strongly.
Tem, hugs, I've so missed talking to you about cooking, is that weird? Let's hope not....
And a hug, or whatever is most comfortable, to Krabo. I hope you're still posting here, or lurking at least; I was worried about you, very, and am glad you stopped by or came back...
Elbowgrease, your comment about India and specialists reminds me of something I was thinking, re this thread, before I ran away... I've been rereading Edith Pargeter's light medieval mysteries (pen name Ellis Peters, the Brother Cadfael series) and also rereading The Once and Future King, and thinking about how richly varied the work world could be in these more agrarian societies - it was predominantly manual labor, but there were shoemakers and blacksmiths and weavers and farmers and shepherds and cowherds and grooms and dyers and tanners and potters and thatchers and carpenters and stonemasons and brickmakers and wheelwrights and coopers and falconers and foresters and and and...
... in "The Perfect Storm" Sebastian Junger describes danger as a loss of options... the fewer options you have in a situation the greater your danger... and he's absolutely right; that's the definition of "trap", isn't it. But I don't think the loss of options is dangerous only in a direct personal safety way. I think it's dangerous socially as well. Can't help wondering how we'd all do if there were real, accessible cottage industries that we could participate in and actually support ourselves with.
And I'm blathering and have committed the dual sins of threadjacking and necrobumping, so I'd better hightail over to my own thread in The Haven and then call it a night.
But I really have missed everyone. Everyone, really.
27 Jun 2018, 7:39 am
27 Jun 2018, 7:47 am
27 Jun 2018, 9:50 am
This is part of the reason for the strange spelling of my username. The original Luddites were very much part of the local history around here (though it began further south in the Nottingham lace industry, with which I have a family connection through my late grandfather.) The Luddites were not people who were frightened of technology per se (what else were their cottage looms if not technology?), but people who feared the very real loss of control over their working environment, the break up of their social communities, poor living conditions in the expanding towns and cities, and the loss of the skills and craftsmanship that made their work satisfying. Like me, they were people who didn't buy the prevailing definition of "progress".
Indeed; I did attain such a job for a while, working in industrial design - but I couldn't sustain it for very long for just the reasons that you stated, and the resulting burn-out and depression was very ugly and very crippling. My attitude is much like yours now; I would be glad of employment, but would rather it be at my former level of a production line worker or machine minder - the "mindless repetition" is actually akin to stimming for me, and I can do it for hours incredibly efficiently, barely noticing the passage of time. Having abilities as a coder and draughtsman doesn't mean that I can apply them in a typical dog-eat-dog work environment - and it tarnishes them as "special interest" sanctuaries from the world to associate them with a toxic environment.
The current football World Cup has been a good one so far - I have managed to avoid having to talk to anyone about it at all!
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
28 Jun 2018, 7:28 pm
03 Jul 2018, 9:04 am
03 Jul 2018, 10:09 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
03 Jul 2018, 3:00 pm
There have always been people who may have been Aspies, and/or mental ill living outside the community who were regarded as shamans or somehow in touch with the world beyond.
The ancient Greeks had the Oracle of Delphi. The Germanic Bructeri tribe had had a young seeress named Valleda who lived isolated in a tower, and whose prophecies were regarded so highly in the Germanic world that she was venerated in life as a goddess. The Romans, not daring to kill her, instead sent her into exile after they captured her.
Many of these people were, sadly, abused. How many hermits were seen as evil wizards? How many hermitesses were accused of witchcraft and burned at the steak? Someone mentioned the anchorite life. That was a religious order, and the people spent their times locked up in cells connected to the church.
In literature, these people make interesting plot devices, much the same as dragons or elves. In real life, hermits probably had to hope like hell they weren't simply slaughtered by cruel society. Let's not idealize the Middle Ages.
The book the OP mentioned does sound interesting. Wonder why he kept calling it the anthology or compendium without ever mentioning the proper title or author/editor.
Burned at the steak... umm, yummy! I'm just kidding, I don't mean to be an a$$hole!
I know you meant stake, not steak. 
23 Jul 2018, 7:47 pm
Not once do the heroic characters tell the hermits off for being dishevelled or unshaven. They never dare to suggest that the hermits should leave their caves/hovels and go down into town more because it will "do them good" to "get out" more, or suggest that its terrible to remain so isolated from everyone, or ask them why they can't just be "more like everyone else." Quite the opposite, they are treated with the utmost respect and are assumed to have special wisdom precisely because they are such ascetic loners.
It just made me think - were these hermits really all very pious, religious people, or were some of them our Aspie ancestors who had sussed out a good ruse for being allowed to get the hell away from all the bawdy feasting and endless chest-beating and boasting by the ridiculously macho warriors?
Reminds me of the Shakespeare characters who insult "graybeards."
It's not English, but have you read The Kalevala? I love how they describe inanimate objects as people. They give them that respect. Not quite what you're talking about, but a connection I made.
Agree with your overall point though.
23 Jul 2018, 7:50 pm
.]You get that impression, don't you? Before everything/every behavior/everyone had to be labeled.
