Incel terrorism

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This was a pretty circumspect commentary. I do think most female members on this board have a good grasp of what she's saying here because we all have the ups and downs of autism in common and we all know how prickly society can be, but I definitely think she spelled this out well for a lot of the people out there (cough...journalists...cough...) who can't think passed themselves on this.

I listened to about 15 minutes of her videos, including about 11 minutes of the one you posted, and I can bear no more. She seems like a brilliant concern troll, which may necessitate her patronizing attitude. She's like Ben Stein, after he stopped being funny.

One can easily find serious feminists disagreeing about any part of feminism, including confronting discriminatory generalizations about men. Let's see some incels doing the same, if the two movements arise from similar motives.

Her attempt to slide in that underlying assumption that men and women face comparable levels of illogical gender-based depreciation did not get past me unnoticed. More offense endured would logically imply more need for catharsis. IME, feminists engage in less man-bashing than incels and such engage in woman-bashing, relative to the level of thoughtful and useful comments from each group.

We either consider each group as a whole, or we can examine the most extreme elements. I think the best evaluation of a group comes from looking at the broad response to violent suggestions. Do the people venting come back to rationality after blowing off steam, or does the group push the discussion further over the line?

Usually, SJWs overall do better at this form of restorative justice than reactionaries. Of course, a focus on inclusion or exclusion makes a big difference.

That's a shame because I think she maybe made the best point toward the end of her video, ie. that incels come from the place of how they've been treated/mistreated by society, often to the point of really having most chances of a future at fulfilling society's marketed 'goals' for all participants taken away, and part of the problem comes in where most people can't imagine what its like to be in that spot therefore quite easily do the 'If I were in their shoes I'd never act that way', which in most cases just shows the lack of empathy or even sympathy. The point is a culture can't destroy certain people and their futures and expect them to be happy, and similarly it can't then actively scorn them for being what they are and expect that to fix the problem.

Also I was pretty clear to say that I wasn't posting this for our benefit as aspies lacking insight into the issue, I think her video is worthwhile for a lot of NT's and people in the media who, as I mentioned above, can't imagine and for lack of imagination come down with the weight of self-righteous anger or, as Sargon aptly put it, punching-downward.


Don't know what a concern troll is so I can't comment. Any particular tells that would suggest that she's saying something she doesn't believe?


That apparently did slip past me - guess I've gotta get my coffee in next time. I did notice her talking about the variance in how our culture handles incels and their feminist intensity equivalent, is that what you were referring to?

She reminds me of adifferentname. I addressed my response to the logical underpinnings of her concern trolling in the rest of my post. Her feelings of belief aside, I consider her argument disingenuous from the start. I will, however, brace myself and listen to the end part in a minute. There's a way to post the video starting at the relevant part, if you get a chance.

IMCO, Women have to put up with more net discrimination than men. I felt like I had to put up with way too much, as a man, but I try to see past my personal resentments, and look at the plain facts dispassionately. I end up wondering how women handle getting even worse treatment than I did.

In this conversation though, ie. incels, its a bit off-point to talk about the oppression of the average woman vs the average man. We're talking about the super-loser subset of the male gender, the guys who either drew the short-end of the genetic lottery, drew the short-end on family, friends, and formative experiences, or some blend of both. It's a very different place than the average, let alone stereotypical, male experience. One might attempt at pulling the facsimile groups across genders and examining them, ie. the way Prim did in her video, but that's about the closest you can really get to a comparison.

She starts around 15:38 on implications of life experience's impact on worldview.

IMHO it's probably just as good an argument on why one shouldn't bash SJW's too harshly, just that as I might have mentioned earlier it's a much clearer articulation than what I've heard from that group.

It's not just aspies. Youtube comment sections are far more atrocious.

Soon the war with iran will solve the incel problem.

To be fair, the comment sections on YouTube, Yahoo, etc have been that way for as long as most users can remember, meaning talking past each other is normal on there. This board was always intended for discussion and that's generally been what's normal here.

Yes, places intended for talking past each other are worse, but that's what 'normal' there and not what's 'normal' here.
(Even if talking past each other is common here, it's not normalized, discussion is still strongly encouraged.)

My point is that men and women totally failing to empathize with each other isn't really an "aspie" thing.

I didn't get to it yet. People came over yesterday, but it's on my list.

TBH I really wasn't worried about as I really didn't even think we were debating so much as trying to clarify the contents of our viewpoints.

If anything I was surprised that video got any responses, and I would have guessed the criticisms would have been that what she was saying was uselessly obvious or trying to profiteer by saying a lot of nothing in a low-cut shirt after a tragedy - which is why I phrased that it's sort of a 101 for people who aren't on the autistic spectrum, don't have any tangential experience, and couldn't imagine the implications of living much more than a few months without a date or whatever else - ie. the kinds of people who seem to really be pulling out the truncheons and not showing much or any empathetic discernment on the matter because they lack any point of reference to hearken back to.

It seems like empathy gets sidelined when people perceive a certain group as dangerous. I also think that if you're a women, the notion that there are guys out there that will become so enraged that they will want to kill you if you don't have sex with them is terrifying. Somehow I don't think entitlement to sex is really the root of the issue though.

If people feel like there's a hole in their life somewhere, it's easy to THINK they know what's missing and become OBSESSED with that thing. This can be especially true in this day and age where people are often addicted to the internet. Even if you're not addicted to online pornography, it's pretty hard to escape constant advertising with imagines designed to trigger mild sexual arousal.

There was another 'about incels' video, posted by Dr. Nerdlove if I remember correctly, telling incels that even if all of the incels got laid tonight or tomorrow it wouldn't solve the problem for the reason that they'd just see it as a one-off and it wouldn't fix the self-esteem issues and ways of thinking that surround that. I'd fully agree with him that 'not getting laid' is really symbolic shorthand for 'failed by societies standards' and living almost like a sort of informal untouchable caste. This sort of thinking even shows when a guy might not be all that excited about the idea of sex with a particular girl but in the back of his mind he thinks 'Well, I can tell my friends that my born-again virgin clock is reset'.

It can be tough for me to tell sometimes when I think about this, how much of the repulsion a lot of people have to thinking about these things (eg. the media, popular bloggers, and the like) has to do with genuine myopia and lack of ability to empathize vs. a deep down understanding that to fix the incel problem would really be to uproot hierarchy and no longer be able to have much of anyone under them anymore - to which so many people do measure their worth by who their above as much as whose above them that they'd say 'no way in hell' just on those grounds.

I tried, and I find her stack of hypotheticals too high and too wobbly. I can imagine a person like she describes, but not enough to make a movement.

My friends and I were bullied, and some came from neglectful or abusive backgrounds. There's no guarantee that the conditions she describes will make a person do things which inspire admiration, or that they will inspire contempt. In some cases, people have serious mental health issues, but the religion of personal grievances won't offer much help for them.

Whether an individual incel deserves compassion or derision depends on them and their behavior. The movement deserves only contempt in its current state.

If incels really wanted to smash the oppressive system of unattainable standards based on gender, they'd be feminists.