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Peacesells
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18 Jun 2018, 7:03 am

I have seen these forums and I have to say that many of them are entitled idiots and hate equality. Some of them aren't even that celibate but they want more and like to whine.
After reading techstepgenr8tion's post I believe the wisest thing for society would be to consider both problems separately (the social isolation of some people and these extremist groups and ideologies) and do something about it with different approaches. It's only fair, not all isolated people are hateful extremist and as I said above I have the impression that not all of these extremists are actually isolated people.
It is a logical fallacy to refuse to consider a problem just because some people affected by that problem behave in an extreme and terroristic way.



Last edited by Peacesells on 18 Jun 2018, 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2018, 7:06 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
This is a disingenuous cop-out. You will ask for empathy for incels for the sake of this conversation, but you're not willing to try to empathize with my perspective for it. You want other people to challenge their thoughts in a way you're not willing to do with your own biases.

I already answered this - knowing why they are the way they are and how to think about correcting the problem. Saying 'awe...they're really okay people down beneath it, even if one of them killed a whole bunch of people near me in a van' - two completely, night and day, different things.


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Hollywood_Guy
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18 Jun 2018, 8:23 am

Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...



kraftiekortie
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18 Jun 2018, 8:28 am

Anybody who behaves and writes like those "incels" on that website-----just needs to be ignored and disregarded.



ASPartOfMe
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18 Jun 2018, 9:25 am

People need to vent and when that happens people sometimes talk nonsense. While an occasional offensive remark should not be enough to brand somebody a women hater for life as happens too often is these incels make hating all women and sexually active men because they did not get the sex they think they are entitled to, their “philosophy”. Relating to another thread while not getting the sex one needs really sucks others do have it a lot worse then them. A lot of people just do not have the time to wallow in thier entitlement.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Jun 2018, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sahn
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18 Jun 2018, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Anybody who behaves and writes like those "incels" on that website-----just needs to be ignored and disregarded.

But thread is concerned with real terrorism, I don't think it's just going to evaporate. Mainstream media has moved on and the debate is happening right here on the internet, on Youtube, and on forums. The people informing the debate get paid for the videos that they make and those same people have an interest in generating more discontent. It's a real sh*tstorm.



jrjones9933
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18 Jun 2018, 2:30 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.


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XFilesGeek
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18 Jun 2018, 2:53 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.


When that guy shot those black people in that church, and it was later discovered that he was a seething racist, I don't recall anyone saying that he was disenfranchised, and misunderstood, and we should attempt to understand where he was coming from.

But when a shooting is misogyny-related, it seems people crawl out from their rocks to tell us how these guys are actually victims, and imply that killing women (or even men) is "understandable" if done out of sexual frustration. It really is a lot of nonsense. Black people don't need to lend a sympathetic ear to the KKK, and women don't need to lend one to "incels."


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 5:16 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.


When that guy shot those black people in that church, and it was later discovered that he was a seething racist, I don't recall anyone saying that he was disenfranchised, and misunderstood, and we should attempt to understand where he was coming from.

But when a shooting is misogyny-related, it seems people crawl out from their rocks to tell us how these guys are actually victims, and imply that killing women (or even men) is "understandable" if done out of sexual frustration. It really is a lot of nonsense. Black people don't need to lend a sympathetic ear to the KKK, and women don't need to lend one to "incels."


Thank you!

Yes, it is important to understand how marginalized men can get radicalized when terrorist attacks happen, it is natural to ask how can we prevent these kinds of things from happening. Surely though we can find a way to do that without justifying the violence they commit by only talking about how hard society has been on them and no wonder they end up hating everyone. Lots of people who have it rough don't become terrorist spree killers, so talking about how society gives these guys a really hard time and it's not fair only serves to make it seem like you are sympathizing with violent psychopaths rather than trying to solve the problem of how to prevent terrorist radicalization.

I think the problem is not social isolation but a certain type of thinking full of cognitive biases that is enforced by online echo chambers full of the same kind of toxic thinking that appeals to people who want a target for their negative feelings rather than a solution to their social and interpersonal problems. It's easier to externalize feelings of anger and failure onto other people as hatred and abuse than to become self aware and cope with one's own feelings and life choices. Vulnerable men find communities online (like incel forums) that reinforce and encourage this thinking and help them direct their frustrations at women. It's like a cult, they brainwash already psychologically vulnerable people, and they excommunicate anyone who challenges the cult-think.



jrjones9933
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18 Jun 2018, 7:22 pm

One can find any number of think pieces analyzing the newly fascist. Sometimes they tell the left to have more sympathy for those beleaguered and misguided folks. Stop calling them names!


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Peacesells
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18 Jun 2018, 8:32 pm

In my opinion sympathy and compassion don't have to imply mercy in any way.
I have not a lot of experience with incels, but when I blast men-hating feminazis and SJWs I sometimes can see what made them what they are. Then I empathize, sympathize, feel their pain without showing it, because there's no use. These things jaded them into becoming irrational beasts that lunge for my throat and I can't do anything about it. I think this is a fitting parallel:

Please note that I am sharing my own experience and I am not trying to tell you that you have to feel this way too.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 8:56 pm

Peacesells wrote:
In my opinion sympathy and compassion don't have to imply mercy in any way.
I have not a lot of experience with incels, but when I blast men-hating feminazis and SJWs I sometimes can see what made them what they are. Then I empathize, sympathize, feel their pain without showing it, because there's no use. These things jaded them into becoming irrational beasts that lunge for my throat and I can't do anything about it. I think this is a fitting parallel:

Please note that I am sharing my own experience and I am not trying to tell you that you have to feel this way too.


Out of curiosity, when was the last SJW feminazi terrorist attack? How many people have been murdered by these feminazis you "blast"?

I'll wait.



Peacesells
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18 Jun 2018, 9:23 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
In my opinion sympathy and compassion don't have to imply mercy in any way.
I have not a lot of experience with incels, but when I blast men-hating feminazis and SJWs I sometimes can see what made them what they are. Then I empathize, sympathize, feel their pain without showing it, because there's no use. These things jaded them into becoming irrational beasts that lunge for my throat and I can't do anything about it. I think this is a fitting parallel:

Please note that I am sharing my own experience and I am not trying to tell you that you have to feel this way too.


Out of curiosity, when was the last SJW feminazi terrorist attack? How many people have been murdered by these feminazis you "blast"?

I'll wait.

You seem to have a deep desire to turn this thread into a childish compatition for who damaged the other side more, do I actually have to play along? It is beyond me how anyone could be irritated by my words.



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2018, 9:33 pm

Another really repugnant effect mass murder has - it's really really shiny. 0.00001% of a population can do it and just about have people calling for a second war on terror.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 11:52 pm

Yes, the real danger of incel terrorism is....feminazi witch hunts! That's what gets people murdered, feminists get angry on the internet and then some women have to die, it's just logic.

Women like me asking questions like "where am I supposed to find empathy for murderous jerkwads?" are the real danger. Sure, guys. :roll:



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2018, 3:24 am

That's the root of the problem:

Below are the key figures for the world population in 2017:

148,779,660 live births
58,619,319 deaths
3,821,873,637 males as of 31 December 2017
3,755,077,748 females as of 31 December 2017

There are about a surplus of 67 millions males in the world, with no chance of finding someone.

We need much more wars, more obligatory male conscription in the world -> more dead males.... and the incel problem would be solved! Since these are the most violent then they're more likely to get themselves killed first.

But now Kim is a good guy, so ....duh, no world war soon!