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The Land without Feminism

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Wolfram87
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09 May 2018, 9:37 am

SocOfAutism wrote:
I think “viking” could be said to be a culture. When you say “Scandinavian” or “norse”, it’s not clear if you mean modern people or people at some other point in time. We generally all know who Vikings were and can easily look up things about their culture because there were somewhat set beginning and ending points.


It makes sense to refer to "the viking age" (793-1066 A.D.), but less so to refer to all Scandinavians of that time as vikings. The vikings were (with few exceptions) Scandinavian, and their settling, their trading and their raiding did spread Scandinavian culture and influence abroad, so it'd make sense for foreigners to associate the Scandinavian culture with the vikings. But for instance to say that the culture of Birka around 1000 A.D was "viking" is arguably only partially correct.


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ASPartOfMe
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09 May 2018, 10:50 am

There is plenty of evidence of what life was like in a land before feminism

Good Wife Training Video

Quote:
The good wife always knows her place
You have no right to question him


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Drake
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09 May 2018, 11:14 am

To be fair, from the description that video was created in 2004 and the source material it is drawing from might not actually have been a real thing.



SocOfAutism
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09 May 2018, 3:33 pm

Many of those good wife tips are common courtesy. Things I myself practice, even though Mr SocofAutism would be the first to tell you that I wear the pants in our household. I try to make coming home pleasant for him.

I also wish being selfish had not come to mean the same thing as feminism. Feminism is supposed to be important, but it’s morphed into something that is hard to align oneself with anymore.



sly279
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09 May 2018, 4:49 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
There is plenty of evidence of what life was like in a land before feminism

Good Wife Training Video

Quote:
The good wife always knows her place
You have no right to question him


Today it’s a good husband knows his place
The wife is always right.



MissChess
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09 May 2018, 7:50 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
People never seem to like the freedom of others very much. If someone gets rid of an arbitrary restriction to what they can do with their own life, it must be at someone else's expense or in exchange for some other arbitrary restriction to their own freedom.

Agreed, and it's such a shame, people treating someone else's freedom as a threat - some things are, sure, but some things aren't. Tolerance isn't a moral absolute, it's a peace treaty. It's how people with different ideas can live around one another without everything devolving into violence.


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The Musings Of The Lost
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09 May 2018, 10:46 pm

Saying Viking is a culture is like saying soldier is a culture


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10 May 2018, 7:43 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I've been dating Chinese girls for a while. They tend to bring their values with them. Feminism just isn't a thing in China.



Right, love the header, but can we just stick with the topic now? the one whereby we discuss things before they get too heavy and out of hand like handing out tickets for the next doomsday apocalypse, whilst bypassing it to look like feminism is a thing that is bespoke and handed down the generations., only to be incarcerated by mature human statistics. Feminism is in all countries and maturity will tell you that.
You can turn a political institution into a famous author but you can't bypass it illegally or otherwise.



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 May 2018, 3:34 pm

PearlsofWisdom wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I've been dating Chinese girls for a while. They tend to bring their values with them. Feminism just isn't a thing in China.



Right, love the header, but can we just stick with the topic now? the one whereby we discuss things before they get too heavy and out of hand like handing out tickets for the next doomsday apocalypse, whilst bypassing it to look like feminism is a thing that is bespoke and handed down the generations., only to be incarcerated by mature human statistics. Feminism is in all countries and maturity will tell you that.
You can turn a political institution into a famous author but you can't bypass it illegally or otherwise.


No, Retro is right; Feminism doesn’t exist in all cultures:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqxH6hdOUw



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11 May 2018, 5:42 pm

I think the issue is about mutual respect between the genders and what they contribute to society.

If women can recognise that working husbands, as well as being (typically) better paid and respected in society, may also shoulder a higher burden of responsibility, and if men can recognise that stay-at-home wives, as well as having less imposed regulation, may also suffer from a lack of agency and self-determination, then we allow people the freedom to choose for themselves, wouldn't that be the ideal?

Seems like men are feeling put-upon in current society, because women are muscling in on their domain. Well, you know what? Of course we are, because for a lot of us, working and earning our own income beats being a stay-at-home mum hands down. It really does.

Feminism still has unfinished business, in my view. It's not just about equal opportunities (at work), it's about adjusting those skewed societal values, which sees greater respect for workers than for stay-at-home carers. The reason men are feeling put-upon is that those less able to work are being replaced by women, leaving those men to be dependent on others, and to suffer the "second-class citizen" status that was traditional for women in the post-industrial past.



The Musings Of The Lost
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11 May 2018, 8:26 pm

What I see happening is if women follow gender stereotypes (stay at home mums, that sort of thing) no one minds. If they break gender stereotypes they get congratulated. If men follow gender stereotypes (working and providing) no one cares but if they break them (stay at home fathers and such) people tend to think less of them


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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11 May 2018, 9:42 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
What I see happening is if women follow gender stereotypes (stay at home mums, that sort of thing) no one minds. If they break gender stereotypes they get congratulated. If men follow gender stereotypes (working and providing) no one cares but if they break them (stay at home fathers and such) people tend to think less of them


Maybe it's different for young women now, but when I was growing up women were not congratulated for breaking gender stereotypes. I think that is highly dependent on your environment too, whether it was OK as a woman to challenge gender expectations or not.

To say women are universally congratulated even nowadays for challenging those gender based expectations is untrue, there are still women living in places that are really restrictive of female behaviour. I've been pretty harshly judged by relatives for not being maternal. No one has ever congratulated me for not having babies.



kraftiekortie
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11 May 2018, 9:48 pm

I've even been castigated for not creating grandchildren for my mother.

I would congratulate someone for "being themselves" when people seek to try to restrict someone from "being one's self" (provided, of course, that the "self" portrayed is not nasty).



The Musings Of The Lost
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13 May 2018, 12:34 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
What I see happening is if women follow gender stereotypes (stay at home mums, that sort of thing) no one minds. If they break gender stereotypes they get congratulated. If men follow gender stereotypes (working and providing) no one cares but if they break them (stay at home fathers and such) people tend to think less of them


Maybe it's different for young women now, but when I was growing up women were not congratulated for breaking gender stereotypes. I think that is highly dependent on your environment too, whether it was OK as a woman to challenge gender expectations or not.

To say women are universally congratulated even nowadays for challenging those gender based expectations is untrue, there are still women living in places that are really restrictive of female behaviour. I've been pretty harshly judged by relatives for not being maternal. No one has ever congratulated me for not having babies.


Of course I’m talking about now, not 30 years ago, and now, in places like the UK,America, Australia and so on


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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13 May 2018, 1:12 am

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
What I see happening is if women follow gender stereotypes (stay at home mums, that sort of thing) no one minds. If they break gender stereotypes they get congratulated. If men follow gender stereotypes (working and providing) no one cares but if they break them (stay at home fathers and such) people tend to think less of them


Maybe it's different for young women now, but when I was growing up women were not congratulated for breaking gender stereotypes. I think that is highly dependent on your environment too, whether it was OK as a woman to challenge gender expectations or not.

To say women are universally congratulated even nowadays for challenging those gender based expectations is untrue, there are still women living in places that are really restrictive of female behaviour. I've been pretty harshly judged by relatives for not being maternal. No one has ever congratulated me for not having babies.


Of course I’m talking about now, not 30 years ago, and now, in places like the UK,America, Australia and so on


But even now young women are not universally congratulated in the west for bucking gender expectations. It's better than it was but those gender expectations are not gone, the pressure is still there to conform to a certain type of restrictive femininity. The dress code for workplaces is still sexist in many places in the west, women are still expected to wear high heels and such. Just like while things have gotten better for black people and slavery has been gone for a while systemic racism still exists and is still a problem for many black people, sexism and restrictive gender expectations are still a problem for women in the west.



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13 May 2018, 5:21 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I've been dating Chinese girls for a while. They tend to bring their values with them. Feminism just isn't a thing in China.

If there are any MRA guys reading this you could be salivating now. A whole country without feminism. A culture where even the women themselves say they're lesser than men.

Well it's not as good for guys as you might think. The Chinese girls I've dated say they should have less responsibility than men.

The one I'm dating now says it's unmanly to complain but women can complain all they want.

The previous one said a man should earn three times as much as his partner. So if she earns $50,000 per year I'm expected to earn $150,000 per year?

Always this prefeminist notion that women are lesser results in women taking less responsibility. It's like they think only men and not women have to act like adults.

I find it really annoying. I need to teach girlfriend that women are equal equal so she can start being more mature and responsible.


In a way this way of thinking makes sense, doesn't it? Equal rights mean equal resposibilities, so if a woman has less rights than her husband/father/brother, it's only natural that she also has less responsibilities. Rights and resposibilities should ALWAYS walk hand in hand.

Personally I wouldn't be happy living that way and would show a man (or a woman) who tries to make me live that way to the door, but if there is a couple where two people are fine with this arrangement then who am I to judge?