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B19
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05 May 2018, 6:08 pm

Quote: "Radicals as the likes of ISIS though follow the Qur’an by the letter; while most Muslims don’t".

Do correct me if I am misinformed, but I was under the impression from my historical reading that the Qur'an has no mention of, support for or concept of a Caliphate hierarchy or establishment.



The_Walrus
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06 May 2018, 7:16 am

Barchan wrote:
Sorry, I was being overly brash and I said something stupid. I swear it's like a reflex >_<

Still, wtf is wrong with this world?

I'm glad you recognise this. The content of that post was anti-Semitic and not acceptable here. Please don't make posts like that again. Thanks.



MalchikBrodyaga
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06 May 2018, 7:55 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Barchan wrote:
Sorry, I was being overly brash and I said something stupid. I swear it's like a reflex >_<

Still, wtf is wrong with this world?

I'm glad you recognise this. The content of that post was anti-Semitic and not acceptable here. Please don't make posts like that again. Thanks.


Well, saying that Jew-on-Muslim violence pops up on the news all the time isn't the same thing as saying "all" Jews hate Muslims. Even if only 30% of Jews hated Muslims that would be enough for it to be daily news, which is all she said in her post.

So are you saying that "none" of the Jews hate Muslims, les you are antisemitic? Well, by the same logic, in order not to be anti-Muslim you also have to say that "none" of the Muslims hate Jews. Well, if "none" of the Jews hate Muslims AND "none" of the Muslims hate Jews, what are we even talking about with Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

I guess talking about Jews hating goyim in general might be closer to antisemitism. But she wasn't talking about goyim in general she only talked about a conflict between two specific groups: Jews and Muslims. There were plenty of examples in history where two specific groups were in a conflict without either of them being "bad" in general, such as a conflict between Czech and Slovak few years ago and so forth.

The only "problem" with Bachan's post is that she filled in a blank that the guy was a Jew instead of actually reading who he was. Well, the habbit of "filling in blanks" isn't antisemitism but a simple lack of patience to read through stuff. And yes this habbit is frustrating: kind of like yesterday in church I told someone I was going to pick up stuff for running competition today, and he assumed I was going home, but wait a second I just told him exactly where I was going, are the running things I was picking up sent to my home or something?! So yeah, that kind of thing is frustrating, although it has nothing to do with antisemitism.



MalchikBrodyaga
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06 May 2018, 8:18 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ I have been atheist for more than 20 years; but religion origins is one of my interests - probably that what led me mainly to atheism.

And no, if there’s really a creator it wouldn’t be the Islamic (or biblical) God.


I guess I am just trying to figure out what were you trying to say with the verses you posted. So, "if God existed", you don't think it would be a Muslim God. But are you trying to say that it would be monotheistic God rather than trinity, and were simply using Koran to back it up that far, yet you don't agree with the rest of Koran? Or what were you trying to say?



The_Face_of_Boo
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06 May 2018, 3:12 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ I have been atheist for more than 20 years; but religion origins is one of my interests - probably that what led me mainly to atheism.

And no, if there’s really a creator it wouldn’t be the Islamic (or biblical) God.


I guess I am just trying to figure out what were you trying to say with the verses you posted. So, "if God existed", you don't think it would be a Muslim God. But are you trying to say that it would be monotheistic God rather than trinity, and were simply using Koran to back it up that far, yet you don't agree with the rest of Koran? Or what were you trying to say?



Nope , I was simply quoting verses that show the Islam’s non-trinitarian messianic views; these views were inherited by the Ebionite faith; the spirtual predecessor of Islam.



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06 May 2018, 3:17 pm

B19 wrote:
Quote: "Radicals as the likes of ISIS though follow the Qur’an by the letter; while most Muslims don’t".

Do correct me if I am misinformed, but I was under the impression from my historical reading that the Qur'an has no mention of, support for or concept of a Caliphate hierarchy or establishment.


I don’t recall there’s any mention of it either.
But the Qur’an isn’t the only thing that devout muslims, and of course radicals, follow. Al Sira (Mohamad’s biography) and the Hadith are as important; and hence Mohammad in his life did establish an empire whom he ruled as an emporer by Islamic laws so, in the eyes of radicals at least, the concept of Caliphate is holy.



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06 May 2018, 3:35 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ I have been atheist for more than 20 years; but religion origins is one of my interests - probably that what led me mainly to atheism.

And no, if there’s really a creator it wouldn’t be the Islamic (or biblical) God.


I guess I am just trying to figure out what were you trying to say with the verses you posted. So, "if God existed", you don't think it would be a Muslim God. But are you trying to say that it would be monotheistic God rather than trinity, and were simply using Koran to back it up that far, yet you don't agree with the rest of Koran? Or what were you trying to say?



Nope , I was simply quoting verses that show the Islam’s non-trinitarian messianic views; these views were inherited by the Ebionite faith; the spirtual predecessor of Islam.


I knew Muslims don't believe in trinity, but the connection to ebionites is something I didn't know before, thanks for letting me know. I know of Messianic groups today patterning themselves as ebionites (see http://ebionite.com/ ) so I assume the are pro-Israel since most Messianics are. Which makes it pretty funny: if only they knew that they are believing in the early roots of Islam.

So are there people that mistakenly assume that Muslims believe in trinity? I heard a different kind of misconception about Islam: some people think that Muslims believe Mohammad is higher than Jesus, which is not the case: I know Muslims think all prophets are the same. I never heard of anyone thinking Muslims believe in trinity though.



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06 May 2018, 3:59 pm

The woman in the article sounds like she is mentally ill. Her story is hard for me to believe. She even stated that he never laid a hand on her. It sounds more like the husband tried to convince her to integrate better into society by wearing more western clothes and taking her out. Also she has a history of mental illness according to the article. If you go to a bar and dont want to drink alcohol, then dont ask for alcohol. Even if other people try to convince you, it is easy to just say no. I never get drunk at bars for example.



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06 May 2018, 5:21 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ I have been atheist for more than 20 years; but religion origins is one of my interests - probably that what led me mainly to atheism.

And no, if there’s really a creator it wouldn’t be the Islamic (or biblical) God.


I guess I am just trying to figure out what were you trying to say with the verses you posted. So, "if God existed", you don't think it would be a Muslim God. But are you trying to say that it would be monotheistic God rather than trinity, and were simply using Koran to back it up that far, yet you don't agree with the rest of Koran? Or what were you trying to say?



Nope , I was simply quoting verses that show the Islam’s non-trinitarian messianic views; these views were inherited by the Ebionite faith; the spirtual predecessor of Islam.


I knew Muslims don't believe in trinity, but the connection to ebionites is something I didn't know before, thanks for letting me know. I know of Messianic groups today patterning themselves as ebionites (see http://ebionite.com/ ) so I assume the are pro-Israel since most Messianics are. Which makes it pretty funny: if only they knew that they are believing in the early roots of Islam.

So are there people that mistakenly assume that Muslims believe in trinity? I heard a different kind of misconception about Islam: some people think that Muslims believe Mohammad is higher than Jesus, which is not the case: I know Muslims think all prophets are the same. I never heard of anyone thinking Muslims believe in trinity though.


Funnily, the Qur’an is pro bibilical-Israel... the ancient Israel.

I never heard of Muslims believing in trinity.



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06 May 2018, 5:23 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Funnily, the Qur’an is pro bibilical-Israel... the ancient Israel.


Are you alluding to the idea that Biblical Israel isn't the same as what we mean by Israel? I mean I know Christians use this argument but I never heard of Muslims using it.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I never heard of Muslims believing in trinity.


I never heard of Muslims believing in trinity either. Thats why I was surprised you were trying to prove to me they don't believe in Trinity: I was assuming everyone knows they don't believe in int.



MalchikBrodyaga
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06 May 2018, 9:51 pm

Aniihya wrote:
The woman in the article sounds like she is mentally ill. Her story is hard for me to believe. She even stated that he never laid a hand on her. It sounds more like the husband tried to convince her to integrate better into society by wearing more western clothes and taking her out. Also she has a history of mental illness according to the article. If you go to a bar and dont want to drink alcohol, then dont ask for alcohol. Even if other people try to convince you, it is easy to just say no. I never get drunk at bars for example.


So you are saying he "suggested" she drinks alcohol so she becomes more social. What about pork then?

And, in any case, if he weren't forcing her to do those things, why did she do them? I mean it won't make sense that a devote muslim would start drinking alcohol and eating pork so easily. So he must have been applying pressure. You say it is psychological pressure rather than physical, but why did he apply psychological pressure then, instead of listening to her when she says no once?



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08 May 2018, 5:39 am

"A Man Forces Muslim Wife To Eat Pork" HA! xD
(also perfect reason to do so in the first place)



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08 May 2018, 7:27 am

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Funnily, the Qur’an is pro bibilical-Israel... the ancient Israel.


Are you alluding to the idea that Biblical Israel isn't the same as what we mean by Israel? I mean I know Christians use this argument but I never heard of Muslims using it.



I mean that the Qur'an does retell the Moses and Promised land story; so it does support the concept of Israel as Jews' rightful land.

“And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land” (Quran: 17:104)
and the second orders the people of Bane-Israel to enter the Holy-Land:

“O my people (the Jews)! Enter the Holy Land, which God has assigned unto you”, (Quran: 5:21)

in the third verse, Allah Almighty order the children of Israel to scatter and says:

“And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, ‘scatter and live all over the world… and when the end of the world is near we will gather you again into the Promised Land” (Quran:17:104)

The last verse is extremely similar to a fundamental concept in some christian denominations, such as the baptists.



MalchikBrodyaga
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08 May 2018, 9:20 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Funnily, the Qur’an is pro bibilical-Israel... the ancient Israel.


Are you alluding to the idea that Biblical Israel isn't the same as what we mean by Israel? I mean I know Christians use this argument but I never heard of Muslims using it.



I mean that the Qur'an does retell the Moses and Promised land story; so it does support the concept of Israel as Jews' rightful land.

“And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land” (Quran: 17:104)
and the second orders the people of Bane-Israel to enter the Holy-Land:

“O my people (the Jews)! Enter the Holy Land, which God has assigned unto you”, (Quran: 5:21)

in the third verse, Allah Almighty order the children of Israel to scatter and says:

“And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, ‘scatter and live all over the world… and when the end of the world is near we will gather you again into the Promised Land” (Quran:17:104)

The last verse is extremely similar to a fundamental concept in some christian denominations, such as the baptists.


So you are pro-Israel then?



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08 May 2018, 6:31 pm

Aniihya wrote:
The woman in the article sounds like she is mentally ill.

Yes, the woman claims she is being abused, so she must be "mentally ill".... classic oldschool gaslighting tactic.

Aniihya wrote:
She even stated that he never laid a hand on her.

Not all abuse is physical.
Not all abuse is physical
Say it louder for the people in the back, NOT ALL ABUSE IS PHYSICAL.

Aniihya wrote:
It sounds more like the husband tried to convince her to integrate better into society by wearing more western clothes and taking her out.

"This is fer yer own good, woman!" :?

Aniihya wrote:
it is easy to just say no.

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