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The Palestinians were the "original Canaanites"

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sly279
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18 May 2018, 5:36 am

Irsael is a Sovereign action and has been so for over 60 years so accept it. They will continue to defend themselves. Your nation could be gone tomorrow and replaced with another and that’d be that. Stop living in th past. Should Eastern Europe go back to the empire of Russia? Should the uk reclaim their thousand year empire? Then most of Europe and Africa belong to Italy since they are th continuation of the Roman Empire, but what about people who trace back to empires before Rome? How many times has land changed hands, how many times have nations rose and fell to be replaced by others. I’m so tired of this land was ours thousands of years ago. That’s the same stupid logic China is using to try to claim the whole Asian sea. What matters is who owns it now. Muslims stole it from the Jews, Jews took it back they own it now. Sorry but that’s how the world works. We all came from somewhere around Iraq. We spread out, we took land, others took to from the, they took it back, so on and so on. Reality is land belongs to whoever can hold it. Palestine doesn’t have the military force to take irsael and kill all the Jews like they want to.

Will your nation be returning land to Isis? Don’t they claim to be the descendants of the true Islamic empire. So they just reclaiming land that belongs to them. Ugh.
How many people in uk are natives? How many conquers did England trade hands to? Again we all came from Iraq all other land had no natives. This s**ts been going on since we existed. I guarantee your nation and people took the land your on from another group of people at some point in history.



sly279
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18 May 2018, 5:44 am

I’m withdrawing from this thread. I can’t not handle seeing people who call for geneocid of millions of people defended. That’s what Palestine called for. To kill ever last Jew in irsael and reclaim it for Muslims. A jihad to kill the infidels. No better then Isis.



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18 May 2018, 6:03 am

Except Israel's foundation on the ruins of Palestinian homes is not something in the ancient past, it's a very recent event.

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That’s what Palestine called for.


Palestine called it for? Like the government of Palestine? as an official statement?

What the f- you are talking about?



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18 May 2018, 6:28 am

sly279 wrote:
Irsael is a Sovereign action and has been so for over 60 years so accept it. They will continue to defend themselves. Your nation could be gone tomorrow and replaced with another and that’d be that. Stop living in th past. Should Eastern Europe go back to the empire of Russia? Should the uk reclaim their thousand year empire? Then most of Europe and Africa belong to Italy since they are th continuation of the Roman Empire, but what about people who trace back to empires before Rome? How many times has land changed hands, how many times have nations rose and fell to be replaced by others. I’m so tired of this land was ours thousands of years ago. That’s the same stupid logic China is using to try to claim the whole Asian sea. What matters is who owns it now. Muslims stole it from the Jews, Jews took it back they own it now. Sorry but that’s how the world works. We all came from somewhere around Iraq. We spread out, we took land, others took to from the, they took it back, so on and so on. Reality is land belongs to whoever can hold it. Palestine doesn’t have the military force to take irsael and kill all the Jews like they want to.

Will your nation be returning land to Isis? Don’t they claim to be the descendants of the true Islamic empire. So they just reclaiming land that belongs to them. Ugh.
How many people in uk are natives? How many conquers did England trade hands to? Again we all came from Iraq all other land had no natives. This s**ts been going on since we existed. I guarantee your nation and people took the land your on from another group of people at some point in history.



Imperial citizenships often fail to replace fully the more local, ethical and inherited historical and linguistic identities, empires are temporary and die - and their purpose often to serve mainly the people from which the empire originated; all Roman actions for example were mainly to benefit the people of Rome - as the first priority.

French for instance consider themselves descendants of Gauls and Franks - and not as descendants of Romans, despite the Roman attempt to romanize the Gaulan culture. Hindu Indians do not consider themselves descendants of the English empire. Iranians do not consider themselves descendants of Islamic caliphates (which were basically Arabian empires), they do not even speak Arabic (despite the caliphates' attempts to Arabize them).
We Levant peoples certainly do not consider ourselves as descendants of Ottomans, we do not speak Turkish- we speak a version of Arabic that contains 60% of it Syriac vocabulary - an ancient language descendant of Aramaic and Phoenician.

Try to tell a Czech that he may be a descendant of Russians because his land was part of Russian empire, and he may punch you on the face.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 18 May 2018, 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

AngelRho
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18 May 2018, 6:42 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Boo what would be your nations respnse if Saudi Arabia or Egypt started launching missles at your cities? Would do they say sorry and seek peace? Or would they launch counter attacks ?


Your question is absurd and has nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian situation - Lebanon is a sovereign nation with its own modern borders and its people didn't come from nowhere but been have been continuously existing in this land, Egypt is a sovereign nation with its own borders and it's a historical nation as well. There's no dispute between Lebanon and Egypt what is ours and what is theirs, nor they driven us from our homes.

Both Lebanese and Egyptians btw do not associate their identity to the land as if it's 'a new country founded officially in the european colonization period' but they associate it on much more ancient historical grounds - they view the official recognition (independence) as a form of rightful restoration of their historical nation (After the long Ottoman empire era).
Some Egyptians view Egypt as continuation to Ancient Egypt, and Lebanon as continuation to Phoenicia or more broadly as a group of Canaanite city-states that still have the same names and locations today ; we see ourselves as ancient natives to the land where we in - it's similar to how Jews associate themselves to ancient Israel - in fact it's similar to how most peoples in the old world , including Europe, identify themselves.

I am gonna counter your question with a question: What do you think the White Britain colonists's response had been when every time the native americans shot arrows at their camps? They surely shot back with fire of course - at least as an act of personal self defense - but that doesn't change the fact that these colonists were....well the initial invaders, aliens to the land, and therefore the initial aggressors.

But if you celebrate thanksgiving every year then I don't expect you will be able to emotionally relate to my above example, I think you're not even capable of so.

You make some excellent points.

I know you don’t believe the Bible and you’re stuck on the whole genocide thing. But your reference to modern-day Lebanon as Canaanite heritage is an interesting one considering the Bible indicates friendly relations between ancient Israel and Lebanon. If God’s beef was with Canaanites, why stop with the Biblical borders of Israel? Why not expand even further north and east?

Re American colonization—the Indian concept of land ownership was essentially like that of the ancient near east, while were on the subject. They lacked the idea of staking claims on a plot and killing anyone who walked across a corner of it. Indians had no problems with colonists as long as their movement was unrestricted and colonists provided useful goods and services. The colonists lacked a strong labor force and began to dominate infrastructure as they established permanent settlements.

It didn’t help that the Indians negotiated treaties with the colonists without fully understanding the repercussions of those agreements. They also didn’t understand how Europeans handled negotiations and failed to approach them in ways Europeans viewed as appropriate. They reacted with violence. And they were also manipulated into violence against colonists by representatives of warring European nations. They never really knew who the good guys were.

The Indian concept of war was different, too. For them, war was more for sport, demonstrations of superiority of one tribe over another. When Europeans go to war, people die in large numbers.

So you end up with two sides who really don’t know what to do with each other and neither side was right.



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18 May 2018, 11:48 am

sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It just wasn't a smart move from the standpoint of the potential for a lasting peace in the Middle East.

It just about destroys the possibility of it ever happening. The Muslims see this as a grievous insult to them.

I'm a Jew. I have no objection to Israel. But the Palestinians should be heard too.

There should be two equal states in the area, in my opinion.


How do you make peace with a side who’s goal is to kill all the other side?
There will never be peace in the Middle East when they aren’t killing non Muslim they killing Muslims of a slightly different belief. There’s never been peace in the Middle East and never will be.


Firstly, Jerusalem isn't Israel's capital. You can't have a capital city in a city that partly belongs to another country.

There wasn't peace between South Africans and the apartheid regime.


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18 May 2018, 11:55 am

sly279 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ We will not stop bitching about Israel’s murderous acts just because you said so; nor we will accept Jerusalem as the sole capital of Israel just because some of you Americans said so.
Nor the 300K Palestinians will be driven out of Jerusalem easily.

Nor we need to accept your evangelist bible.

So how about you stop bitching by being israel’s advocate?

And North Korea will never accept that they don’t own all Korea, China will never accept they don’t own Tiawan, etc etc. it is how it is bitching wont matter. Jerusalem is the international accepted capital of israel, want to change it, raise a big enough military force to take it but be prepared to fight US and nato. didn’t work out so well for yiu all last time. You took it from them they took it back. That’s how the world works. Just like the us won’t be giving back all the land to the native Americans


At least attempt to research something before you make such a ridiculous post. East Jerusalem is recognised by the world as occupied Palestinian territory. It is the proposed capital of Palestine that is accepted by the whole world. Israel has shown they have interest in the two state solution. They are a regime that has gone over the cliff. They are heading for "national suicide".


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18 May 2018, 12:02 pm

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It just wasn't a smart move from the standpoint of the potential for a lasting peace in the Middle East.

It just about destroys the possibility of it ever happening. The Muslims see this as a grievous insult to them.

I'm a Jew. I have no objection to Israel. But the Palestinians should be heard too.

There should be two equal states in the area, in my opinion.


How do you make peace with a side who’s goal is to kill all the other side?
There will never be peace in the Middle East when they aren’t killing non Muslim they killing Muslims of a slightly different belief. There’s never been peace in the Middle East and never will be.


It's funny you frame this as Muslim vs. non-Muslim; you're aware that Palestinian Christians are just as supportive of Palestinian nationalism as Palestinian Muslims are, right?

Israel Muslims support Israel. Maybe if they gave up on taking the city back and stopped lobbying mussels and doing suicide attacks there’d be peace.
If you lived in Israel constantly under attack you’d have a different opinion. You like people telling England to stop attacking the Germans during the longing bombings.
Or what if we just left Isis alone surely they’d stop attacking us if we just completely withdrew all military from Middle East and let them have it. No they goal is to kill all non Muslims yiu can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you.

Other Muslim nations who work with irsael don’t seem to care and I’m sure a lot of Muslims don’t care or support Israel. Sorry but if Canada started lobbing missies on my city every week I’d be calling for their invasion and to topple Canada


There's actually a degree of common sense in what you say, "you can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you."

And as long as the pro-ethnic cleansing faction run Israel, Palestinians must understand there is no possibility for peace and resistance, up to and including armed, violent resistance is absolutely justified. :wink:

Then I guess they’ll just continue to die in service of allah via johad at the hands of the IDF and irsael’s superior military power, good riddance.
Sorry I don’t like hamas and Palestine terrorist like you all do. They can all die and rot in hell. There will never peace in the Middle East as long as them, Isis and Iran exist. Turkey is going that way too I hear. Seems besides Kuwait and irsael he Middle East is horrible. No not all the people there are but their governments and enough people are and ruin it for everyone else. Israel always attacks altering being attacked. They don’t go far enough in my opinion, they need to roll in take all of Palestine and start and occupation until they route out every last terrorist. No Other major nation would put up with what they do. Russia would have stomped out Palestine in few weeks if they were irsael, so would the USA, uk, France, Germany etc. non of them would put up with a neighbor stat attacking them every day. So in that way palaistine is lucky. If they’d f****d with us their whole nation would lay in Ruins and there’d be US marines on every street kicking any remaining doors down. Their fighters who remained would be rotting in Cuba being water boarded to find out where the rest are. Russia would just killed them all. Same with China.
Imagine if Tiwain lobbed misled at China. What do you think would happen? Would China seek peace? Or would they bomb the s**t out of that tiny island until nothing moved?
Look what happen to Afghanistan and Iraq after they attacked us and supposedly supported those who attacked us. Look at Syria. If Palestine stopped all terrorist attacks and stopped launching missles I’m sure they’d get left alone. If you go picking a fight with the big guy in the room you going get your ass kicked. To expect anything else is stupid. Honestly I hope Israel says screw political correct and just puts an end to the s**t. I’ve seen it all my life I’m sick of it and I’m not going even th one being bombed. Take Palestine remove hamas. Let life improve for the people there. Pleanty of Muslims live well off lives in irsael. But they won’t. So both sides will just continue killing each other and hating each other. Don’t yiu support gun controL for th kids? Do irsael kids not deserve to live ? Do they not deserve to live with out fear of being bombed every day?


What the f**k are you talking about? When did Afghanistan and IRAQ attack you? You realise that Palestine military brigades as well as Hezbollah are fighting against ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria but Israel are supporting Al Qaeda and ISIS? You just see all Muslims as terrorists.


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18 May 2018, 4:28 pm

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It just wasn't a smart move from the standpoint of the potential for a lasting peace in the Middle East.

It just about destroys the possibility of it ever happening. The Muslims see this as a grievous insult to them.

I'm a Jew. I have no objection to Israel. But the Palestinians should be heard too.

There should be two equal states in the area, in my opinion.


How do you make peace with a side who’s goal is to kill all the other side?
There will never be peace in the Middle East when they aren’t killing non Muslim they killing Muslims of a slightly different belief. There’s never been peace in the Middle East and never will be.


It's funny you frame this as Muslim vs. non-Muslim; you're aware that Palestinian Christians are just as supportive of Palestinian nationalism as Palestinian Muslims are, right?

Israel Muslims support Israel. Maybe if they gave up on taking the city back and stopped lobbying mussels and doing suicide attacks there’d be peace.
If you lived in Israel constantly under attack you’d have a different opinion. You like people telling England to stop attacking the Germans during the longing bombings.
Or what if we just left Isis alone surely they’d stop attacking us if we just completely withdrew all military from Middle East and let them have it. No they goal is to kill all non Muslims yiu can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you.

Other Muslim nations who work with irsael don’t seem to care and I’m sure a lot of Muslims don’t care or support Israel. Sorry but if Canada started lobbing missies on my city every week I’d be calling for their invasion and to topple Canada


There's actually a degree of common sense in what you say, "you can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you."

And as long as the pro-ethnic cleansing faction run Israel, Palestinians must understand there is no possibility for peace and resistance, up to and including armed, violent resistance is absolutely justified. :wink:

Then I guess they’ll just continue to die in service of allah via johad at the hands of the IDF and irsael’s superior military power, good riddance.
Sorry I don’t like hamas and Palestine terrorist like you all do. They can all die and rot in hell. There will never peace in the Middle East as long as them, Isis and Iran exist. Turkey is going that way too I hear. Seems besides Kuwait and irsael he Middle East is horrible. No not all the people there are but their governments and enough people are and ruin it for everyone else. Israel always attacks altering being attacked. They don’t go far enough in my opinion, they need to roll in take all of Palestine and start and occupation until they route out every last terrorist. No Other major nation would put up with what they do. Russia would have stomped out Palestine in few weeks if they were irsael, so would the USA, uk, France, Germany etc. non of them would put up with a neighbor stat attacking them every day. So in that way palaistine is lucky. If they’d f****d with us their whole nation would lay in Ruins and there’d be US marines on every street kicking any remaining doors down. Their fighters who remained would be rotting in Cuba being water boarded to find out where the rest are. Russia would just killed them all. Same with China.
Imagine if Tiwain lobbed misled at China. What do you think would happen? Would China seek peace? Or would they bomb the s**t out of that tiny island until nothing moved?
Look what happen to Afghanistan and Iraq after they attacked us and supposedly supported those who attacked us. Look at Syria. If Palestine stopped all terrorist attacks and stopped launching missles I’m sure they’d get left alone. If you go picking a fight with the big guy in the room you going get your ass kicked. To expect anything else is stupid. Honestly I hope Israel says screw political correct and just puts an end to the s**t. I’ve seen it all my life I’m sick of it and I’m not going even th one being bombed. Take Palestine remove hamas. Let life improve for the people there. Pleanty of Muslims live well off lives in irsael. But they won’t. So both sides will just continue killing each other and hating each other. Don’t yiu support gun controL for th kids? Do irsael kids not deserve to live ? Do they not deserve to live with out fear of being bombed every day?


Who says we support terrorism? I certainly don't, and have had a long running battle with another member over just that subject.


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19 May 2018, 10:58 am

Artist Sting have a song a with the words "History will teach us nothing"
Unfortunely Sting is right, the meaning of 'never again' means nothing when the whole turns there head when israel commit deccenia long warcrimes on innocent people on a open-air-prison. Even warcriminal Ariel Sharon (Sabra & Shatila) could be live in freedom all his live. Its a big shame for the western world.

Over again, and over again, and over again...
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25 May 2018, 6:09 pm

No, the "palestinians" were Syrians that had been living in Israel until the Six Day War, in which most of the nations surrounding Israel had advised them to leave so as to make it easier of the muslim league to slaughter everyone. Israel won that war in a week and the Syrians which had abandoned Israel were left holding their butts out in the wilderness.


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02 Jun 2018, 9:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was a very injudicious move on Trump's part to move the embassy to Jerusalem...….to say the least.


Anything to keep the fundie and holy roller voters, as they believe moving Israel's capitol to Jerusalem moves us that much closer to the end of the world they so yearn for.


The irony is they may manage to end the world.



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02 Jun 2018, 9:22 pm

JNathanK wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was a very injudicious move on Trump's part to move the embassy to Jerusalem...….to say the least.


Anything to keep the fundie and holy roller voters, as they believe moving Israel's capitol to Jerusalem moves us that much closer to the end of the world they so yearn for.


The irony is they may manage to end the world.


That's their plan.


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02 Jun 2018, 10:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was a very injudicious move on Trump's part to move the embassy to Jerusalem...….to say the least.


Anything to keep the fundie and holy roller voters, as they believe moving Israel's capitol to Jerusalem moves us that much closer to the end of the world they so yearn for.


The irony is they may manage to end the world.


That's their plan.

Personally? I like it.

But even if that’s how you feel, the problem with reading the Bible that way is the Bible only says that event (among others) will occur before the world ends. The Bible doesn’t specify that restoring temple worship is THE sign that the world will end, merely that restoration (at some point) will happen before the end. We don’t know whether the temple will be restored once or a hundred times before the end.

I mention the temple because I don’t recall “moving the capital” as being criteria for the EOW. Jerusalem is either the capital or it isn’t. The Bible doesn’t appear all that concerned with how the USA feels about it. I don’t believe the pre-ordained fate of Earth hangs on where we locate our embassy.



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03 Jun 2018, 12:37 am

AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was a very injudicious move on Trump's part to move the embassy to Jerusalem...….to say the least.


Anything to keep the fundie and holy roller voters, as they believe moving Israel's capitol to Jerusalem moves us that much closer to the end of the world they so yearn for.


The irony is they may manage to end the world.


That's their plan.

Personally? I like it.

But even if that’s how you feel, the problem with reading the Bible that way is the Bible only says that event (among others) will occur before the world ends. The Bible doesn’t specify that restoring temple worship is THE sign that the world will end, merely that restoration (at some point) will happen before the end. We don’t know whether the temple will be restored once or a hundred times before the end.

I mention the temple because I don’t recall “moving the capital” as being criteria for the EOW. Jerusalem is either the capital or it isn’t. The Bible doesn’t appear all that concerned with how the USA feels about it. I don’t believe the pre-ordained fate of Earth hangs on where we locate our embassy.


I see Revelations as a very minor book that's been misinterpreted the most.


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03 Jun 2018, 6:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was a very injudicious move on Trump's part to move the embassy to Jerusalem...….to say the least.


Anything to keep the fundie and holy roller voters, as they believe moving Israel's capitol to Jerusalem moves us that much closer to the end of the world they so yearn for.


The irony is they may manage to end the world.


That's their plan.

Personally? I like it.

But even if that’s how you feel, the problem with reading the Bible that way is the Bible only says that event (among others) will occur before the world ends. The Bible doesn’t specify that restoring temple worship is THE sign that the world will end, merely that restoration (at some point) will happen before the end. We don’t know whether the temple will be restored once or a hundred times before the end.

I mention the temple because I don’t recall “moving the capital” as being criteria for the EOW. Jerusalem is either the capital or it isn’t. The Bible doesn’t appear all that concerned with how the USA feels about it. I don’t believe the pre-ordained fate of Earth hangs on where we locate our embassy.


I see Revelations as a very minor book that's been misinterpreted the most.

There’s no such thing as a “minor” book. Though I do wish people would teach or preach more from the Song of Solomon.

Revelation is scary and difficult, which is why nobody likes it. My rule of Biblical interpretation is ALWAYS take the Bible at face value UNLESS the Bible itself says not to, e.g. Proverbs, Psalms, the parables, and so on. Some sayings are obviously idioms that don’t translate well literally, and some scholars have pointed to possible astrological meaning in Revelation. What’s important to remember when dealing with eschatology is we won’t really know until we get there. So keep calm...

Revelation is by far my favorite.