Can gangsters be turned into radical leftists?
17 May 2018, 3:53 pm
Hi all. I just thought of something.
For a long time, there have been two violent gangs duking it out in California - the Bloods and the Crips.
Today, my mind was wandering and I thought of something. Would it be possible to "red pill" these gangs and turn them into radical leftists?
I'm saying this because "gangsta" culture has a few admirable characteristics. They seem to recognize some real problems in the world and they are definitely passionate. Unfortunately, they are intellectually directionless. Thus, they don't understand the source of some of the very real social problems that they rap about.
I don't think that radical leftists are perfect, but they are better than gangsters because they have a coherent belief system and a sense of direction.
Am I onto something or is this just nonsense?
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18 May 2018, 1:33 pm
I am fairly sure that bloods and crips, if they are smart and lucky enough to escape prison, just turn into regular guys. If they don’t adopt a drug and or alcohol problem, sooner or later they tend to have kids, which steers them to a regular job and away from tomfoolery. Not so glamorous, so we don’t hear about it too much.
I doubt there would be a lot turning into radical politics. The problem is not about intelligence or being woke, it’s that dudes (and ladies) in gangs are usually steered there out of need. They need money and security. To be able to devote yourself to a political cause, you kind of already have to have those things going for you. Even those political homeless people you see sometimes are not likely in desperate straits. They have a particular culture where they are supporting each other and sharing resources, often from their friends who have supplies to spare. It would surprise me for a crip/blood traditional gang member to be able to transition to that king of culture, which is more of a commune than a gang. I would say a gang would be closer to a military or sports team kind of social culture.
Source: I have a masters in sociology, have read some books about this stuff. I wouldn’t say I have much real life knowledge. I do know many radical leftists.
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18 May 2018, 5:54 pm
It has been done in the past
Young Lords
The Young Lords began in 1960 as a Puerto Rican turf gang in the Lincoln Park neighborhood of Chicago. Their president Jose Cha Cha Jimenez reorganized them on Grito de Lares, September 23, 1968 and became founder of the Young Lords as a national civil and human rights movement. This new community wide movement, then networked to nearly 30 other cities including three branches in New York City. These groups were united into one by Chicago's national offices because of the importance of building a strong united national organization for Puerto Rican self determination.
The Young Lords' mission was created in Chicago:self determination for Puerto Rico, all Latino nations and all oppressed nations of the world and for barrio empowerment.They also had a 10 point program modeled after the Black Panthers 10 point program. However when the New York group split from Chicago it created their own 13 Point Platform.
(From the newspaper Palante, 8 May 1970, volume 2, number 2)
We want self-determination for Puerto Ricans -- Liberation on the island and inside the United States.
We want self-determination for all Latinos.
We want liberation for all third world people.
We are revolutionary nationalists and oppose racism.
We want community control of our institutions and land.
We want true education of our creole culture.
We oppose capitalists and alliances with traitors.
We oppose the amerikkan military.
We want freedom for all political prisoners.
We want equality for women. Machismo must be revolutionary... not oppressive.
We fight anti-Communism with international unity.
We believe armed self-defense and armed struggle are the only means to liberation.
We want a socialist society.
In November of 1970, that platform was revised. The 5th point changed to wanting equality for women, down with machismo and male chauvinism. Their 6th point followed the Young Lords mission regarded community control of our institutions and land. The 7th point was changed to demanding true education of afro-Indio culture and the Spanish language. The 10th point was for the freedom of all political prisoners and prisoners of war and lastly the 11th point was changed to a proclamation of being internationa
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24 May 2018, 3:20 am
Doubt it. Gangsters seem to have more in common with the right. Extreme machismo, selfishness, contempt for “weakness”, and a belief in social darwinism. They emulate the same hyper-individual / hyper-egocentric, shallow, ultra-materialistic, antisocial ideals as the right-wing corporate overlords. They simply don’t have the power to rig the entire system in their favor, so they resort to violence instead. I hate modern “thug” hip-hop culture.
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Sweetleaf
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24 May 2018, 3:23 am
But what about the ones that eventually want to get away from that lifestyle? I think some people even if they regret it, stick with it for their well-being. Like some of these gangs probably want to harm or kill members that abandon it, so I imagine even getting out of something like that can be risky.
Like I am not sure how kind they would be to someone who says 'I've had enough and don't want to do
this anymore.'
And according to my brother who has talked to more gang people than I, well like they can't really make friends because it is too risky, either they or said friends could be harmed...sounds like being a gangster is a really lonely lifestyle where you can never get attached to people because maybe someday you have to harm or kill them.
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24 May 2018, 11:47 am
But what about the ones that eventually want to get away from that lifestyle? I think some people even if they regret it, stick with it for their well-being. Like some of these gangs probably want to harm or kill members that abandon it, so I imagine even getting out of something like that can be risky.
Like I am not sure how kind they would be to someone who says 'I've had enough and don't want to do
this anymore.'
And according to my brother who has talked to more gang people than I, well like they can't really make friends because it is too risky, either they or said friends could be harmed...sounds like being a gangster is a really lonely lifestyle where you can never get attached to people because maybe someday you have to harm or kill them.
Okay. I'm not universally condemning everyone who's in a gang. I also realize not everyone who goes down that path realizes what they're getting into, especially if they're recruited at a very immature stage in their life.
I'm only saying that the culture as a whole doesn't seem too conducive to social justice, considering how nihilistic it is. I mean, I have some respect for people like Malcolm X or other groups that flirted with ideas of violent revolution. I think militancy is dangerous, but I can at least sympathize with where they are coming from.
The thing with gang culture as apposed to actual political movements is there doesn't seem to be any aim at all. I don't think there are any large gangs that don't regularly devolve into factional infighting. They terrorize their own communities and regularly engage in murderous feuds even between member of the same gang.
In any case, I think any kind of attempt at political revolution involving violent criminal elements will end extremely bad. If you remove a functional government, there's a pretty direct sociological evolution from gangland violence to the type of warlord-ruled semi-feudal anarchy that have existed in places like Somalia. I'd say gangs are actually the precursor to societal collapse. They are evidence of dysfunctioning economic and/or legal systems.
25 May 2018, 6:04 pm
Like the Clintons?
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