The 15 billion yrs of cosmos & 6 dys of creation r same.

Page 7 of 8 [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Macbeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Age:37
Posts: 3,481
Location: UK Doncaster

31 Jul 2007, 2:11 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Ragtime, you haven't abandoned the thread entirely, so would you be willing to give a quick answer to my question whether the origin of any other species more recently than the origin of humans would conflict with Genesis? If you don't like a choice between yes and no, how about five options?

1: Yes, there would be a conflict
2: I think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
3: I don't know
4: I don't think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
5: No there would not be a conflict

I am not asking you to spend time on reaching an agreement whether any species has an origin more recent than humans. I only ask whether you think that would contradict Genesis. Just pick one of those five options for an answer, or if they don't contain what you consider the true answer, offer something else.

Gromit


6. Nothing possible conflicts with Genesis.


Because Genesis is always right? Or everything else is wrong?


_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 2:16 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
1. Contrary to what Ragtime keeps implying about my opinion on the matter, I do think that the Bible expresses truth. I don't think that people should apply their own whims to its interpretation. I have never said otherwise.

What I think Ragtime is actually responding to is my original posts a long time ago about homosexuality not being a sin. He does not understand how I could possibly say that, and not have read whatever I want into scripture. Therefore, he takes that to be my position even when it is not.

I wasn't responding to, or even thinking about your past claims regarding gays.
spdjeanne wrote:
How a person reads a certain text depends on what context they believed it's in. I think the context of a scripture includes, but is not limited to, the genera in which the text appears, the culture in which the text was originally written, and the belief of the person reading the scripture. I think that a person's belief is probably the most important part of the whole context, without which there is no hope of actually understanding scripture at all.

It seems to me that Ragtime chose to question the authenticity of my beliefs because perhaps he does not think that one who knows Christ can actually understand the Bible in the way that I have come to understand it. However, in the end, it doesn't matter how Ragtime or anyone else judges me as long as my conscience is clear with God.

Overall, it disturbs me quite a bit that Ragtime acts as if he is closer to God than anyone else on WP because of his Jewish heritage which he feels makes him more like Jesus than the rest of us. It seems that he feels justified in correcting and judging anyone who claims to also know Christ and may have a different opinion than himself... instead of just expressing his opinion as an opinion.

There are many things I don't know, and I admit them frequently on WP. I'm arguing for the validity of the Bible, not for the validity of my own personal take on it, even though I do have to naturally express that in the process. I prefer to argue issues, not ad hominems.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 2:18 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Ragtime, you haven't abandoned the thread entirely, so would you be willing to give a quick answer to my question whether the origin of any other species more recently than the origin of humans would conflict with Genesis? If you don't like a choice between yes and no, how about five options?

1: Yes, there would be a conflict
2: I think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
3: I don't know
4: I don't think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
5: No there would not be a conflict

I am not asking you to spend time on reaching an agreement whether any species has an origin more recent than humans. I only ask whether you think that would contradict Genesis. Just pick one of those five options for an answer, or if they don't contain what you consider the true answer, offer something else.

Gromit


6. Nothing possible conflicts with Genesis.


Because Genesis is always right? Or everything else is wrong?


Less games, more discussion please.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Macbeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Age:37
Posts: 3,481
Location: UK Doncaster

31 Jul 2007, 2:23 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Ragtime, you haven't abandoned the thread entirely, so would you be willing to give a quick answer to my question whether the origin of any other species more recently than the origin of humans would conflict with Genesis? If you don't like a choice between yes and no, how about five options?

1: Yes, there would be a conflict
2: I think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
3: I don't know
4: I don't think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
5: No there would not be a conflict

I am not asking you to spend time on reaching an agreement whether any species has an origin more recent than humans. I only ask whether you think that would contradict Genesis. Just pick one of those five options for an answer, or if they don't contain what you consider the true answer, offer something else.

Gromit


6. Nothing possible conflicts with Genesis.


Because Genesis is always right? Or everything else is wrong?


Less games, more discussion please.


Its a valid question. Why do you believe that nothing possible conflicts with Genesis?


_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]


spdjeanne
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2007
Age:35
Posts: 546
Location: Earth

31 Jul 2007, 3:27 pm

Ragtime wrote:
I prefer to argue issues, not ad hominems.


I was NOT saying what I said about how you seem to act as a part of an argument. I was just trying to observe that it is disturbing to me. Very often instead of stating your opinion regarding what someone has said you will just post the word, "wrong" or, "correct" as if you have the authority to judge what is right and wrong. You rarely qualify anything you say as your opinion or what you think and in the process proclaim your beliefs as ultimate truths. It is apparent that you believe your Jewish heritage makes you more close to what real, original Christianity was all about. You have used such arguments for yourself in this thread and elsewhere.

Also, you are not arguing for the validity of the Bible in this thread, only your personal take on it. If you were just arguing for the validity of the Bible, you would not have such a huge problem with what I'm saying because I do not deny the validity of the Bible at all, just your take on it. It seems that when confronted with these observations you tend to change your tune immediately not realizing that everything you've been writing and saying to people is forever there as evidence against your protests.



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 4:15 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I prefer to argue issues, not ad hominems.


I was NOT saying what I said about how you seem to act as a part of an argument.

I wasn't implying you did! Calm down. I was refering to me, not you.
spdjeanne wrote:
I was just trying to observe that it is disturbing to me. Very often instead of stating your opinion regarding what someone has said you will just post the word, "wrong" or, "correct" as if you have the authority to judge what is right and wrong.

You mean "very seldom". And usually my (rare) one-word responses are affirmations, not denials. And regarding that, I often practice Jesus' instruction toward short-answer responses: "Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one" (Matt 5:37). Which is why I don't like long-windedness.
spdjeanne wrote:
You rarely qualify anything you say as your opinion or what you think and in the process proclaim your beliefs as ultimate truths.

Why would I need to qualify what I write as my opinion? And, I think my beliefs are true, otherwise I wouldn't have them.
spdjeanne wrote:
It is apparent that you believe your Jewish heritage makes you more close to what real, original Christianity was all about. You have used such arguments for yourself in this thread and elsewhere.

What's the problem? I don't think I'm somehow better than other people for it. It's an incidental, but not an altogether insignificant one. God looks at / deals with the Jews differently than everybody else. If one gleans anything from Scripture, it's that. Plus, I'm half-Gentile, even though I've always strongly identified with being Jewish. As such, I wouldn't be automatically admitted to Israel if I moved there, because they require the mom to be Jewish, whereas only my dad is. My point is I'm not considered Jewish by all.
spdjeanne wrote:
Also, you are not arguing for the validity of the Bible in this thread, only your personal take on it.

My main point is that it's true. If you think that's my "personal take" on it, that's fine, because it is. Simultaneously, it's true.
Here's the logical progression:
1. If I say the Bible's false, it's true.
2. If I say the Bible's true, it's true.
Conclusion: There is no correlation between the truth of the Bible and what Ragtime or anyone else claims; it remains true even so.
spdjeanne wrote:
If you were just arguing for the validity of the Bible, you would not have such a huge problem with what I'm saying because I do not deny the validity of the Bible at all, just your take on it.

You've mentioned you believe Jesus' words are more authoritative than the espistles. That's a way of making those books of the Bible less valid.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age:33
Posts: 5,568
Location: In the recesses of my mind

31 Jul 2007, 6:26 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Ragtime, you haven't abandoned the thread entirely, so would you be willing to give a quick answer to my question whether the origin of any other species more recently than the origin of humans would conflict with Genesis? If you don't like a choice between yes and no, how about five options?

1: Yes, there would be a conflict
2: I think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
3: I don't know
4: I don't think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
5: No there would not be a conflict

I am not asking you to spend time on reaching an agreement whether any species has an origin more recent than humans. I only ask whether you think that would contradict Genesis. Just pick one of those five options for an answer, or if they don't contain what you consider the true answer, offer something else.

Gromit


6. Nothing possible conflicts with Genesis.


Because Genesis is always right? Or everything else is wrong?


Less games, more discussion please.

'
discussing" by replying with a one-line retort to their one line retort which was in response to your PREVIOUS one-line retort?

pot

kettle

black?


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 7:07 pm

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Ragtime, you haven't abandoned the thread entirely, so would you be willing to give a quick answer to my question whether the origin of any other species more recently than the origin of humans would conflict with Genesis? If you don't like a choice between yes and no, how about five options?

1: Yes, there would be a conflict
2: I think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
3: I don't know
4: I don't think there would be a conflict, but I would have to think about it to be sure
5: No there would not be a conflict

I am not asking you to spend time on reaching an agreement whether any species has an origin more recent than humans. I only ask whether you think that would contradict Genesis. Just pick one of those five options for an answer, or if they don't contain what you consider the true answer, offer something else.

Gromit


6. Nothing possible conflicts with Genesis.


Because Genesis is always right? Or everything else is wrong?


Less games, more discussion please.

'
discussing" by replying with a one-line retort to their one line retort which was in response to your PREVIOUS one-line retort?

pot

kettle

black?


Just because a response is one line doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of complex thought behind it. The ability to be brief shouldn't be criticized.

But it does remind me of a Dilbert. (Anyone else here read every single Dilbert that's ever been published, plus a few that haven't?) Anyway, Dilbert is interviewing prospective employees, and he complains to his boss, who likes a particular candidate, that the candidate's resume is a blank piece of paper. The Pointy-Haired Boss replies,
"I like a man who can be brief."



Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age:33
Posts: 5,568
Location: In the recesses of my mind

31 Jul 2007, 7:16 pm

i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 7:43 pm

Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)



Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age:33
Posts: 5,568
Location: In the recesses of my mind

31 Jul 2007, 8:22 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)


you were the one gripin about oneliners and belittling them... yet using them in your own defense to sidestep questions.

do you not see the irony here?


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

31 Jul 2007, 9:00 pm

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)


you were the one gripin about oneliners and belittling them... yet using them in your own defense to sidestep questions.

do you not see the irony here?


You went against your own accusation in response to me, by using one line. That's what I was saying. Let's nitpick and b***h some more, k?



Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age:33
Posts: 5,568
Location: In the recesses of my mind

31 Jul 2007, 11:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)


you were the one gripin about oneliners and belittling them... yet using them in your own defense to sidestep questions.

do you not see the irony here?


You went against your own accusation in response to me, by using one line. That's what I was saying. Let's nitpick and b***h some more, k?


no i didnt.......... just pointing out your inconsistancy.

i can accuse all i want. im fine with one liners... you're still missing the irony


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


Macbeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Age:37
Posts: 3,481
Location: UK Doncaster

01 Aug 2007, 7:06 am

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)


you were the one gripin about oneliners and belittling them... yet using them in your own defense to sidestep questions.

do you not see the irony here?


You went against your own accusation in response to me, by using one line. That's what I was saying. Let's nitpick and b***h some more, k?


no i didnt.......... just pointing out your inconsistancy.

i can accuse all i want. im fine with one liners... you're still missing the irony


And he still hasn't answered the question either.


_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age:36
Posts: 9,770
Location: Dallas, Texas

01 Aug 2007, 8:51 am

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
i agree... but you dont follow your own wisdom.


In what way, Miss one-liner who accuses of one-lining? ;)


you were the one gripin about oneliners and belittling them... yet using them in your own defense to sidestep questions.

do you not see the irony here?


You went against your own accusation in response to me, by using one line. That's what I was saying. Let's nitpick and b***h some more, k?


no i didnt.......... just pointing out your inconsistancy.

i can accuse all i want. im fine with one liners... you're still missing the irony


I don't mind one-liners. Why did you think I did? Whether or not I said something that sounded like that to you, I don't mind one-liners.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.