Always too slow...

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Whenever I end up near a potential love interest, I almost invariably seize up. This is nothing new to me, but what I have been noticing is that I force myself to act as if I were a friend, as if it were a coping device. Since I have no problems dealing with friends (male or female), such maneuvers on my part help me to appear more "natural" to potential women, but it also immediately puts me into the "friend zone" of any potential dates (while I think this arbitrary construct should be done away with, it's been ingrained into the minds of nearly every woman on the planet, and that isn't likely to change in my lifetime).

If I ask any of my established female friends (of which I apparently have a lot thanks to efforts mentioned above), the most honest answer I get is that I'm too slow at the whole dating thing.

Is anyone else like this?

PS: No references to Pilinski, please... I got up to about chapter 4 and I couldn't read anymore because it was making me feel worse...

i think this "friend zone" is something less solid than it seems,

if a girl likes a guy enough, friend or not- chances are she could be willing to date him

maybe being in the "friend zone" causes her to think that you wouldn't be interested in being more than friends and she needs to be shown otherwise

also all girls are different, there will be different responses in different situations

I tend to over think things as well. A big part of me wants to know what kind of person she is, if she'd take well to me or not, even before I put anything forward. The thing I have to remember though is we're animals, not people.

I think you and I both probably need to just take steps toward just making ourselves chat up and flirt with women who we find attractive, completely get our heads around the need to know whether or not we'd be accepted. That and if dates go well, great, if we finally get railed on for our differences and have that worst case scenareo chew out about it - even better yet because the more of that you get yourself around and just expect the better. The relationship world is supposed to be based on the basics of basics and pride only works if it can shield you from caring about getting shot down or verbally sniped at, if pride is keeping you out of just going out there and playing the arbitrary dance - then its really killing you and also keeping you from suficiently hardening yourself, hardening your take on the world, and hardening what kind of shelling you can emotionally take (ie. being able to know when your right, when your wrong, and having no amount of emotional energy positive or negative be able to grind down your sense of self). That's part of what I'm trying to teach myself. Being that males on this planet are supposed to be battering rams it doesn't stand to reason that we're required to go in blind and handle anything that gets thrown at us.

Flirting isnt so hard for me (the dry humor actually helps in this respect), but I end up flirting from the perspective of a friend and not a potential partner...

Toad.

I know you feel.

I have that issue, though its more of something different, I think from being more of an as*hole NT/AS borderline.

I didn't get my first girlfriend until junior year, and I really wanted one, then after we broke up, I felt better being single, then I dated again, and felt good about it, but prefered being single, then we broke up and I was single and felt good. This summer I dated an old childhood sweetheart and flame I knew in first and eighth grade. we broke up three or so times more or less because I wasn't wanting to commit, yet for some odd reason, I keep wanting her back, I have no idea why. I've always been a lone wolf type, since high school started with a huge ego and very anti social, and having a girlfriend appeals to me, but then when I do have one, I almost and do wish that I was single, so much as to where I want her to dump me or give a reason that we shouldn't date.

I'm not the player type, I'm just not the type that wants a relationship.

The problem with me is that I am the type that wants a relationship, but I'm not a "player", so to speak... so I end up failing in all of my endeavours...

Although my experiences aren't exactly the same I can identify with a lot of that. Not so much that I don't want a relationship, just that the universal realities of what it ends up being have me wanting one more in theory than wanting the real thing.

Yah. I'm thankfull that the girl that I keep doing this so understanding. she's AS as well.

At least you know an aspie girl in real life...

I'm not slow - I totally freeze

I have some cases in my past that apparently those women were interested in me, but I had such a low self esteem that I totally ignored the signs that seem very clear now.

I think that I'm not so miserable anymore, but now I'm old and I don't get any suggestions. Or then they have become yet subtler, so that my lessons learnt won't help...

I can understand the whole "total freeze" effect... that's why I just act as if I'm being a friend, when it's really just because I am physically unable to tell her how much i love her...

I'm not advanced enough in my career and life to be ready for something very serious, but having one mate makes things simpler.

I have and wouldn't mind dating multiple women, but it's a lot of time juggling.

I think we can admit we like physical and emotional intimacy, but may not be ready to fully devote all of our time to one serious relationship.

BTW, I totally empathize with the OP.

Thanks for the concern... I just got screwed over by this whole thing again... http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt53219.html

I used to have that same thing all the time (but in reverse; I'm a girl, I like boys).

Then I just kinda fell in love with someone, and it was very obviously mutual (even I could figure it out - half my problem was always not knowing if someone was flirting with me or that they liked me!). So that solved that problem.

Fingers crossed the same happens for you!!

Yeah, see, I don't really date that much at all. Its not that I'm intimidated by women in general, but I'm real used to having hasty judgement calls made on me before they even know who I am or what I'm about - and it seems like there's nothing about my social skills that can be improved to get around that, its all gestalt and what I think really just comes to eugenic dynamics.

When I think about being in a long term relationship though, I'd need a woman who's company I could enjoy, I could relax and be myself with her, and it would be fine. Not that I put a huge game on, just that the natural aversion women tend to pull makes it very difficult for me to fathom not having to deal with that on a day to day basis, even in the short relationships I did have something almost always seemed uncomfortable or broken about the dynamic and it was one of those things that was too complex and too subtle for me to ever just reason out and solve.

In addition, there's the idea of being the financial leader of a household and raising kids. Life as it is, just being single with a career job, saps me. Maybe its different in the sense that being bussier would keep me more energetic, has happened in the past, but life's never usually been that kind to me for the best to happen when I'm expecting the worst - quite often its me telling myself that the worst is all in my head, paranoia, I do all I can to keep the confidence on through new obstacles, and the first time around usually my worst nightmares come true from the standpoint of the other person or people - things that are out of my control and it ends up being the kind of downward spiral where if its a job, I just wish they'd fire me and get it done already, if its a woman at that rate or having kids - not that the worst case is bound to happen but I have some major trust issues that I can't easily let go of, just because I know how people are.

Executive functioning problems, IMO are as if not more degrading than the social skill issues. I feel lucky that I have good social sense, can read people, and know what to do and what not to but still - hate being disgraced and eating pride over my body's limitations - especially when it really seems to invalidate me. It gets easier and easier to just not care about it all and find ways to just enjoy life as it is but still, people will always remind me and will always find ways of reminding me that living single and not getting Y is *not* ok, its just a standard our society is built on, it haunts anyone who's outside of it, and I'd like to think I'll either find a way to deal with that or find a partner who will be good to me and for whom I can be good for - all that though feels like its completely in the hands of fate and not my own, my best guess from history is I'm a born again single from here to oblivion - not to say I'll never get layed again but just based on how women seem to be built vs how I am and what the general concensus seems to be - I just don't see it happening.


On another note though I definitely know what your saying, steady relationships are real demanding of time and energy - its also why I could never deal with dating a taskmaster, someone who felt she needed to keep me on my toes, hold the reigns or fight me for them. Life's tiring enough, if I can't find my own bit of peace and if a relationship necessarily has to take that away from it due to some underlying programing women may have - if that's the case then forget it; might be dreaming to want anything as layed back as I want but I don't care, its the only thing better to me than being single.

Can you explain Executive Functions as it applies to your adult life, if you don't mind
Paying Bills? Getting to work on time?

You also threw in "eugenic awareness" in regards to female perceptions of you.
How so?
Women would size us up and decide we may not make good breeding material?

I think sex appeal was more on my side when I was quieter. I either joke way too much or get so hyperverbal, I can't stay on thread for very long. Quote from this page from O.A.S.I.S. is a good summation of my verbal skills:
"Pragmatic, or conversational, language skills often are weak because of problems with turn-taking, a tendency to revert to areas of special interest or difficulty sustaining the "give and take" of conversations. Many children with AS have difficulties dealing with humor, tending not to "get" jokes or laughing at the wrong time; this is in spite of the fact that quite a few show an interest in humor and jokes, particularly things such as puns or word games.
"
Since undergoing some diet and supplement mods a few months ago, my social/verbal skills are more nigh to NT. But the road is still uneven. Although my verbal communication skills have become more fluid, I seem to be more succeptible to being bland in mood or even depressed. Some of these blues are work related, and some is BS from feeling sorry for myself for not being as competitive as other guys at work in regards to picking up women.
I try not to compare, but it always has a way of getting to me.

I even have new gals notice me before anyone else, but as time goes by, they are talking more to the other males than me. It's the "too slow" or too whatever thing the OP started this thread with.

I also get the "too nice" bit too. I'm not caveman enough, which is ironic since I put some stock into the Neanderthal theory of the Autism Spectrum.