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pakled
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19 Jan 2008, 9:05 pm

I, to take the advocacy of the devil in hand, prefer succinctness, the well-turned phrase, bon mot, or staircase wit summing up a knowledgeable, practical, and short answer. Not to mention being easier to shoehorn out of my mouth..;)



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19 Jan 2008, 9:15 pm

nutbag wrote:
Sophist, you are a true pedant. By this I do not mean that you hang on someone's neck.


Thank yew! Thank yew!

..I need some sort of bowing/curtsy emoticon here...

Danielismyname wrote:
Isn't pedantic speech the strict use of dictionary/encyclopedic terms that don't deviate from their real meaning; the use of utter factual accuracy in conversations in relation to points made?

"Big-words" don't define it.


So sayeth wiki:

Quote:
A pedant, or pædant, is a person who is overly concerned with formalism and precision, or who makes a show of learning. The corresponding (obsolete) female noun is pedantess. The term comes from the French pédant (1566 in Darme & Hatzfeldster's Dictionnaire général de la langue français) or its source Italian pedante "teacher," schoolmaster, pedant. (Compare the Spanish pedante.). The origin of the Italian term is uncertain. The first element is apparently the same as in pedagogue (a teacher) etc.; and it has been suggested that pedante was contracted from the medieval Latin pædagogantem, present participle of pædagogare "to act as pedagogue, to teach" (Du Cange); but evidence is wanting. The Latin word is derived from Greek terms for "child" (παιδ-) and "to lead" (αγειν).


But, the negative side:

Quote:
The term is typically used with a negative connotation, indicating someone overly concerned with minutiae and detail and whose tone is perceived as condescending. When it was first used by Shakespeare in Love's Labour's Lost (1588), it simply meant "teacher". Shortly afterward, it began to be used negatively. Thomas Nashe wrote in Have with you to Saffron-walden (1596), page 43: "O, tis a precious apothegmaticall [terse] Pedant, who will finde matter inough to dilate a whole daye of the first inuention [invention] of Fy, fa, fum"


For us in this thread though:

Quote:
Being referred to as a pedant, or pedantic, is generally considered insulting. However some people take pride in being a pedant, especially with regard to the use of the English language.


And HFA and Asperger's are mentioned in the following lines of wiki's definition:

Quote:
Pedantry can also be an indication of certain developmental disorders. In particular those with high-functioning autism, often have behavior characterized by pedantic speech. Those with Asperger's tend to obsess over the minutiae of subjects, and are prone to giving long detailed expositions, and the related corrections, and may gravitate to careers in academia or science where such obsessive attention to detail is often functional and rewarded.


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Sophist
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19 Jan 2008, 9:17 pm

Wow, "apothegmaticall"... that's quite a word there. :D


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whitedragon
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19 Jan 2008, 11:55 pm

I'm not sure whether I'm a member here, because I can be a bad judge in qualitative stuff, but I have found myself writing more that way on this forum than when I speak IRL.

I went through a phase of 'trying to master street speech' when I was a lot younger, so I believe I can be versatile, so my sympathy there Brittany2907. I used to start a conversation with a peer in 'vouvoyer (Fr. Here I mean the equivalent in my language)' when I was young, because I understood it to be the rule and was puzzled why others didn't seem to do this. And WinterRose I share the spelling problem with you haha. Also English is a foreign language to me so I will be easily beaten by literature-minded WP members in the multi-syllablic department.

I was thinking in my case it's more of trying to express the idea as accurately as possible, just like you would in a maths problem, when I read this.

nutbag wrote:
Whilst it is true that each mode of locution may involve the employment of esotwric and polysyllabic terminology, it ought be noted that pedantic speakers use such words to enhance precision in the expression of underlying concepts.

[typo: esoteric]
nutbag, I like your 'may' in l.1. That's a beauty.
I'm very happy many others here agree on this. :D :) :D

So I see in the core of this lies an effort of being logical. I enjoy using English maybe because it lets me, probably more effortfully, manupilate form, syntax and concepts, which gives me a sense of order.

Being logical, in my opinion, can be achieved without using words as defined in dictionary*, which I see as an illogical use of language, admitting that I was a bit of a stickler to dictionary definitions myself as a child; modern linguists are able to show you that insisting on prescriptive use goes against the very nature of natural language. Of course you can nicely stick to the algorithm in artificial language. Plz note though, the above does not imply that no pedants can be prescriptive in their use of language, I'm just saying it seems illogical to me.

*Though this arguement tends to be futile if you don't define what kind of dictionary you want to talk about, because there're now those based on language corpus, which means these dictionaries are 'descriptive' rather than 'prescriptive'.

Has anyone here seen a comedy clip (British, recent few years) where some white coats throw themselves in an uncontrollable fit of laughter over a tongue trip of a tech term? Something to the effect of 'Did you actually say esotwric instead of esoteric?'



Last edited by whitedragon on 20 Jan 2008, 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

nutbag
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20 Jan 2008, 12:09 am

WHITEDRAGON

You obviously possess a pedants license, grade one.

Oh, and I am horrifically clumsy. I mistypw all the time.


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onefourninezero
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20 Jan 2008, 5:22 am

I wouldn't say I love being pedantic, more that I really like it to a considerable degree.



Danielismyname
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20 Jan 2008, 6:42 am

Sophist,

Thanks, that's what I thought. I can see how I am pedantic; strangely enough, I never saw it with a negative connotation, just someone who prefers accuracy and facts.



whitedragon
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20 Jan 2008, 8:07 am

nutbag wrote:
WHITEDRAGON

You obviously possess a pedants license, grade one.

Oh, and I am horrifically clumsy. I mistypw all the time.

Whee, I got grade one, haha. With a hindsight I can see it.



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20 Jan 2008, 1:09 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
Sophist,

Thanks, that's what I thought. I can see how I am pedantic; strangely enough, I never saw it with a negative connotation, just someone who prefers accuracy and facts.


I never take it as an insult anymore. ;)

I just say, "Thank you!"


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Sophist
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20 Jan 2008, 1:14 pm

I'm seriously gonna have to start using "apothegmatical" though...


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nutbag
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20 Jan 2008, 1:22 pm

I may have to include "apothemagiticale" too, so long as this lysdexis aspie does not have to spell it!


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2ukenkerl
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20 Jan 2008, 1:32 pm

nutbag wrote:
I may have to include "apothemagiticale" too, so long as this lysdexis aspie does not have to spell it!


WOW, that took me a second! And I was talking to someone about dyslexia just this morning!



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20 Jan 2008, 1:34 pm

When you're autistic, there's always another good laugh on the way.


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deadpanhead
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22 May 2008, 11:47 am

I was not a member of the beneficent world of WP when this thread was instituted. I still fervently hope, however, to importune you all for membership into the Pedantic Speech Fan Club. I list as my qualifications the following:

*Awarded a Best Friend Outburst of Anger at age 11 for using words too advanced for my best friend to understand
*Throughout the years of my life i have had the ability to correct nearly every teacher and author i have encountered concerning matters of vocabulary and writing
*Awarded Spousal Infuriation multiple times over the years for demanding precision in all incoming and outgoing communication
*Awarded Offspring Infuriation multiple times over the years for demanding precision in all incoming and outgoing communication

I do hereby, and with these incompressible credentials, do substantiate my claim to membership.



asperity
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22 May 2008, 9:56 pm

I love it. It's mellifluous to my ears.



computerlove
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23 May 2008, 1:19 am

deadpanhead wrote:
*Throughout the years of my life i have had the ability to correct nearly every teacher and author i have encountered concerning matters of vocabulary and writing

ahh. correcting teachers, I love that part :P


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