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WurdBendur
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10 Feb 2008, 8:22 pm

I don't remember the exact course that led me to find this, but I recently discovered by accident that I have a single transverse palmar crease on my right hand (you can see my hand at the bottom of that article). This occurs when the two transverse creases which are normally present (the head line and the heart line) merge into a single crease. It's also called a simian crease because many monkeys have a similarly structured hand, but that term seems to be disfavored now. Since I stumbled upon this feature, I've been reading about it out of curiosity. Most of the information I've found has linked it to various genetic disorders including trisomy 21 (down syndrome), but I found this one which connects it to ASD.

Basically, it seems that there are some uncommon hand features that are more frequent in individuals on the spectrum. I don't know if it means anything, but it seemed kind of interesting!

(Please let's not squabble about the site's definitions or presumptions about autism, or anything like that. It comes up EVERY TIME someone posts a link, it's old, and who really cares, and blah blah blah blah. Shut up.)

So, let's talk about hands.


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riverotter
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10 Feb 2008, 9:23 pm

There was an article that came up maybe four months ago linking finger length (especially in women) to ASD's. I can't remember the details, but I remember staring at my own hands for two days afterwards.
edit- whoops, didn't see the 2nd link in original post.



Last edited by riverotter on 10 Feb 2008, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WurdBendur
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10 Feb 2008, 9:44 pm

Yes, it's mentioned in this article too. It says that those on the spectrum tend to have a ring finger that's shorter than their index finger. This is the case on my right hand, but not my left.

This ratio (2D:4D ratio) has been a pretty popular subject of study recently, with attempts to link it to things like gender role and sexual orientation. Apparently the more masculine condition has a ratio near 1 or lower (equal length or shorter index finger), and the more feminine condition has a higher ratio (shorter ring finger). It's supposed to have something to do with testosterone, I guess, though this seems to be at odds with what's known about autism.

It's also supposed to be related to various talents including mathematical and musical abilities among others that are often associated with ASD.


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scumsuckingdouchebag
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10 Feb 2008, 10:12 pm

Quote:
It says that those on the spectrum tend to have a ring finger that's shorter than their index finger. This is the case on my right hand, but not my left.


Describes me.

I don't have the 'simian crease' though.



pakled
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10 Feb 2008, 10:19 pm

hmm...I know my lifeline keeps getting shorter as I age, and the money lines have dissapeared..;)

My index fingers are longer than the other fingers. Who knew?...;)



SeaBright
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10 Feb 2008, 10:40 pm

yup dats me!

8)

my rings are longer than my indexes, however.

Both hands on simians....

editted...oh wait maybe I don't....I'm confused as to the placement-none of my lines go all the way across-but two of my lines connect and travel as one.


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Last edited by SeaBright on 10 Feb 2008, 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hadapurpura
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10 Feb 2008, 10:48 pm

WurdBendur wrote:
Yes, it's mentioned in this article too. It says that those on the spectrum tend to have a ring finger that's shorter than their index finger. This is the case on my right hand, but not my left.

This ratio (2D:4D ratio) has been a pretty popular subject of study recently, with attempts to link it to things like gender role and sexual orientation. Apparently the more masculine condition has a ratio near 1 or lower (equal length or shorter index finger), and the more feminine condition has a higher ratio (shorter ring finger). It's supposed to have something to do with testosterone, I guess, though this seems to be at odds with what's known about autism.

It's also supposed to be related to various talents including mathematical and musical abilities among others that are often associated with ASD.


Bolding's mine.

But I've read exactly the opposite - that people with autism tend to have "ring fingers that are abnormally long compared with their index fingers": The Economist

Both my ring fingers are considerably longer than my index fingers:

- 6mm of difference, if I measure each one from beginning to end

- 1 cm. longer (1.2 cm longer, if we get rigorous) is the (vertical) distance between the tip of my index finger and the tip of my ring finger

But I knew that even before measuring them, it's that obvious.

However, how does one measure the "ratio" (2D:4D)?



Last edited by hadapurpura on 10 Feb 2008, 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nobodyzdream
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10 Feb 2008, 10:54 pm

I can't really read the second article... that menu scrolling thing that overhangs the words in it is driving me absolutely nuts, lol. All I saw was something about abnormalities in the little finger, so I'm not sure how related this is, but both of my little fingers are angled inward. They both look like they have been broken at the ends, but they have not... was that related or is this an open mouth/insert foot moment? lol.

I saw something about the fingerprint pattern, but I have no clue what mine is, lol, and my eyes are horrible so I can't really get a good enough look to make it out, even after I tried inking/stamping, lol. It all just blurs together for me.


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SeaBright
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10 Feb 2008, 10:56 pm

They were saying one or the other about homosexuals. (ring v index)

they really dont know what they are talking about yet...still in lobotomy stage.


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matt
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10 Feb 2008, 11:22 pm

WurdBendur wrote:
Yes, it's mentioned in this article too. It says that those on the spectrum tend to have a ring finger that's shorter than their index finger.
Doesn't it say the opposite?

Quote:
Various researchers have also conducted research focussed on studying the relation between hand features and autism. Recently John T. Manning has established in his work 'Digit Ratio' that autism is frequently accompagnied by a so-called 'low 2D:4D ratio' - which indicates: a relative short index finger compared with the length of the ring finger (12).



oscuria
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10 Feb 2008, 11:32 pm

WurdBendur wrote:
Yes, it's mentioned in this article too. It says that those on the spectrum tend to have a ring finger that's shorter than their index finger. This is the case on my right hand, but not my left.

This ratio (2D:4D ratio) has been a pretty popular subject of study recently, with attempts to link it to things like gender role and sexual orientation. Apparently the more masculine condition has a ratio near 1 or lower (equal length or shorter index finger), and the more feminine condition has a higher ratio (shorter ring finger). It's supposed to have something to do with testosterone, I guess, though this seems to be at odds with what's known about autism.

It's also supposed to be related to various talents including mathematical and musical abilities among others that are often associated with ASD.


I was looking up the simean line sometime last year. My brother (mentally disabled) has the simean line on both hands. My other brother who is fully capable has it on his dominant hand. I'm one who doesn't have it, though.

About finger lengths, it is a bit strange with me. On my left hand the ring finger appears longerthan the index, and on my right hand, the opposite. I became interested in these things because I noticed that my ring finger was very weak when playing classical guitar.



scumsuckingdouchebag
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11 Feb 2008, 12:15 am

Quote:
they really dont know what they are talking about yet...still in lobotomy stage.


That tends to be the case with a lot of things related to medicine or psychology.



MarchViolets
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11 Feb 2008, 1:03 am

As a child my ring fingers were longer than all of my other fingers. I recall thinking that my hands looked different from other children’s. No one ever commented on it, though.

Since then, my hands have changed, with my middle fingers being the longest, followed (equally, I think) by my ring and index fingers.



Danielismyname
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11 Feb 2008, 1:20 am

I actually stuffed up my last measurements concerning my fingers when this "issue" came around a few times prior; my ring fingers are longer than my index fingers: 5 mil on the right and 2 mil on the left. I also have other signs/features pointing to an excess of testosterone in my early development, or an impaired ability to regulate it, or something, which has continued throughout my life.

In my case, the extreme male brain theory of autism can probably apply to me.



WurdBendur
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12 Feb 2008, 2:41 am

hadapurpura wrote:
But I've read exactly the opposite - that people with autism tend to have "ring fingers that are abnormally long compared with their index fingers": The Economist

matt wrote:
Doesn't it say the opposite?


Sorry, you're both right. My mistake.

hadapurpura wrote:
However, how does one measure the "ratio" (2D:4D)?

The ratio is just the quotient. 2D is the length of your second digit (index finger) and 4D is the fourth digit (ring finger), so it's index/ring, if I have that right... those may be backwards too.


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i_Am_andaJoy
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12 Feb 2008, 4:51 am

i don't have the crease thing in my hand. my index and ring fingers are pretty dead-even in length.


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