Sign language as a secondary support language

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craola
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23 Mar 2008, 4:31 pm

My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.



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23 Mar 2008, 5:04 pm

craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.

craola,
is there anyone who could help teach some sign language to see what think?

Am say ignore all the possible problems with it,and just try it for a while,if find it helps then stay with it.

Am non verbal almost completely due to sensory causes so for backup use a form of signing called Makaton [there are less steps to the signs-which is easier to process and follow through as am find it impossible to learn BSL,and they are also action based which means people who haven't even learned it often know what are meaning]-am recommend Makaton if find ASL [? not sure where are in?] too difficult to learn,BSL/ASL/full signing would give more choice but it is not for everyone.

Will find more teaching for learning ASL/BSL/full signing,Makaton is harder to learn for those who need someone to teach it to them as courses are aimed at carers and support workers,am learnt it off home staff.



There's a few signers on here besides am-the WPers am can think of right now are Age and SKOREAPV83,quite a few people have wanted to learn it to.


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Age1600
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23 Mar 2008, 5:27 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.

craola,
is there anyone who could help teach some sign language to see what think?

Am say ignore all the possible problems with it,and just try it for a while,if find it helps then stay with it.

Am non verbal almost completely due to sensory causes so for backup use a form of signing called Makaton [there are less steps to the signs-which is easier to process and follow through as am find it impossible to learn BSL,and they are also action based which means people who haven't even learned it often know what are meaning]-am recommend Makaton if find ASL [? not sure where are in?] too difficult to learn,BSL/ASL/full signing would give more choice but it is not for everyone.

Will find more teaching for learning ASL/BSL/full signing,Makaton is harder to learn for those who need someone to teach it to them as courses are aimed at carers and support workers,am learnt it off home staff.



There's a few signers on here besides am-the WPers am can think of right now are Age and SKOREAPV83,quite a few people have wanted to learn it to.


Hehe thanks for remembering me, yes im actually training to be a sign language interpreter myself, know lots of signing!


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23 Mar 2008, 6:10 pm

craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.


My son was non-verbal until after he turned two, and he is still struggling with a speech disorder and PDD. I began learning and teaching him sign language. I never had much luck getting a foreign language to stick either, but several people have asked if I took sign language courses because I know so much. I only started learning it last November, and it has come very easy for me and for my two year old son. I would suggest giving it a try. A wonderful web resource is ASL Pro, which you can find here: http://www.aslpro.com/


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23 Mar 2008, 6:16 pm

craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?


i have that problem too and i've wondered whether i should learn makaton myself. there have been quite a few times when i've been out with support workers, i've got stressed out and can't speak or get anything into words. but i can still wave my hands around and clap and scream. i just need some way to communicate immediate needs. my support workers all know makaton (there's another service user they support who can only communicate with sign), but one of them put me off learning it, she said its just a language like any other language, and i suppose like you i had problems learning foreign languages at school (and even english feels like a foreign language to me) so it really put me off. if signing really did use some other 'part' of the brain or even just some different neurological path then it might help me too.

Quote:
Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.


i can empathise, it is exactly the same for me too... i have the same problem generating both spoken language and written language... i know some aspies who say that they love the internet because they can write so much easier than they can talk, well for me it just isnt true :cry: writing is worse in some ways. i often wish that there was some special message board or website for people like us, who have trouble with language, where we could communicate together in some other way that felt more natural. i cant think of a way though... maybe with drawing simple pictures and diagrams or something?

it takes me ages to write too by the way, been at this about an hour myself... does writing leave you with a headache or a dizzy feeling? thats what it does to me :( it leaves me so stressed that i can't relate to what i've written, i cant really explain it. so frustrating.



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23 Mar 2008, 7:54 pm

From a brief search on the internet I found a sign language alphabet and enough number signs to convey simple measurements of time and quantities of items. Online the written word is an adequate communication tool which renders signing unnecessary. However I keep the alphabet and number signs in reserve for use whilst in public. My voluntarily muteness is a contentious issue for my family, who believe I ought to talk in public out of politeness. I do not communicate through sign language as it is intended to be used, but do sign the characters T and Y to indicate thankyou, P for please, Y for yes, and N for no. I find it regrettable that this choice of actions leaves me subject to ridicule, since I do this to be polite towards those who try to communicate with me. It is not a great success, and I can not personally recommend my approach. I would like to wish you the best of luck with any decision made on the sign language issue. If anyone has found Makaton to be a more comfortable tool for communication I would like to know; my tentative enquiries have lead me to conclude that most educational literature on the subject is directed towards people trying to communicate with young children.



craola
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24 Mar 2008, 4:16 am

Thank you very much for your replies, I am Aimee by the way, although I love my screen name being called by it makes me feel like a crayon.

I was going to say that I have never heard of Makaton but now I have a brief recollection of hearing the term before. I really like the word, something that is, for some strange reason important when it comes to whether I am actually going to be able to do something.

What are the main differences between Makaton and Sign Language?
Is there a significant difference in ease of learning?

Thank you, it really is good to know there are other people like you, this is the first time I've ever felt like this being on this site. And Diva D I feel very much the same as you, you aren't alone.



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24 Mar 2008, 1:30 pm

Age1600 wrote:
KingdomOfRats wrote:
craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.

craola,
is there anyone who could help teach some sign language to see what think?

Am say ignore all the possible problems with it,and just try it for a while,if find it helps then stay with it.

Am non verbal almost completely due to sensory causes so for backup use a form of signing called Makaton [there are less steps to the signs-which is easier to process and follow through as am find it impossible to learn BSL,and they are also action based which means people who haven't even learned it often know what are meaning]-am recommend Makaton if find ASL [? not sure where are in?] too difficult to learn,BSL/ASL/full signing would give more choice but it is not for everyone.

Will find more teaching for learning ASL/BSL/full signing,Makaton is harder to learn for those who need someone to teach it to them as courses are aimed at carers and support workers,am learnt it off home staff.



There's a few signers on here besides am-the WPers am can think of right now are Age and SKOREAPV83,quite a few people have wanted to learn it to.


Hehe thanks for remembering me, yes im actually training to be a sign language interpreter myself, know lots of signing!

Age,
are easy to remember-are probably the best signer on here as do both Makaton and ASL!

DivaD,
am cannot speak for anyone else but self on this [because of all the different causes for non verbalism] but am find makaton easy,the signs are kind of natural because they emulate the actions of things.
Try it and see if it helps,there is a programme for children called something special on the BBC that is a load of crap-but--is all done in Makaton,if have not seen it already,have a look,think it's on the cbbc channel as well as one of the normal BBC channels.
Am was going to recommend getting a PDA or laptop to use for communicating and to craola as well,am also use a laptop for communicating but both might find this a problem as have problems with written words.
There is also PECS as another form of communication [basic pictures on cards].

ViatorRose,
the official manuals has the full signs,so if able to learn without help-they would be worth getting.


craola,
the main difference is in the type of language-Makaton is not designed to be the only communication in use,it's meant as a backup language,it can be used as the only communication-but it won't have actions for everything that want to say.
Makaton is action based and ASL/BSL are word based,eg,Makatons' signs replace actions such as needing a drink,wanting to eat, needing to use the toilet,want to go for a walk etc, and ASL/BSLs signs replace the actual words so can say anything with it.

There is big difference in the difficulty of both of them-as Makatons' signs are natural like anyway they're easier to understand for both
signer and person looking at the signs,there are up to two parts per makaton sign,whereas with ASL/BSL as are replacing full words it takes a lot of steps to go through.
ASL/BSL also cannot be understood by other people unless they know it,but have a far better chance getting makaton understood.


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26 Mar 2008, 7:51 am

Craola- sorry if I missed it, but I don't see that you posted which country you live in? And what sign language is typically used in your area?
Currently (since I live in the US) I am taking ASL. I love it. I always wanted to learn more ASL and because of my interactions with SKOREAPV83 on this forum I finally did enroll in a class, at our community college. The teacher is Deaf.
If you had trouble with other languages you might find sign much easier. There are not any horrific vast amounts of random irregular verb forms (what ruined Espanol for me) and many of the signs actually "are" what the concept is. I consider it a very natural and conceptual thing. Also, we (aspies/auties) tend to be visual people. ASL has a certain logic to it that just makes sense. I have a theory that we can learn sign much more easily as a second language than any NT people. A lot of my (NT) classmates and other ASL students I have met- including those who are pursuing interpreting as a career- just don't seem to get it.
However, one of my classmates is a Deaf guy who was raised orally (was not allowed by parents to learn sign) and learned in high school; as it turns out he is an Autie as well (SAME-AS-ME). The fluency he has attained inspires me.
One thing I didn't realize though is how much socialization the class requires. That was probably a flaw in my logic. We have to do Deaf cultural activities which involve meeting lots of new people in groups-- exhausting for me! If I had an AS diagnosis I could have requested an accomodation for that, or a waiver.
At any rate, I hope you give it a try. Perhaps you will find it as amazing as I do.



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26 Mar 2008, 12:25 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
Age1600 wrote:
KingdomOfRats wrote:
craola wrote:
My Psychologist has suggested that I learn sign language because I really struggle with putting sentences together and trying to talk and it gets me really worked up. I also tend to stop talking when I get really upset or in a complete state.

I really really struggled with learning foreign language at school, there was much shouting, but Jenny says that sign language would be the opposite side of the brain, the side that I wouldn't have problems with.
Does anyone use sign language as either a primary or secondary or just know the language?

Also is it accurate about the different sides of the brain and the ability to learn the different skills?
I know the different sides of the brain are responsible for the arts/sciences etc but what about the two types of language?

Im sorry im doing it again, I cannot put sentences together even on a computer, I don't know what to do about it, I just can't do talking or sentences anywhere its so difficult, this has taken me well over an hour to write and its really short, its getting worse as well. Its rather puzzling.

craola,
is there anyone who could help teach some sign language to see what think?

Am say ignore all the possible problems with it,and just try it for a while,if find it helps then stay with it.

Am non verbal almost completely due to sensory causes so for backup use a form of signing called Makaton [there are less steps to the signs-which is easier to process and follow through as am find it impossible to learn BSL,and they are also action based which means people who haven't even learned it often know what are meaning]-am recommend Makaton if find ASL [? not sure where are in?] too difficult to learn,BSL/ASL/full signing would give more choice but it is not for everyone.

Will find more teaching for learning ASL/BSL/full signing,Makaton is harder to learn for those who need someone to teach it to them as courses are aimed at carers and support workers,am learnt it off home staff.



There's a few signers on here besides am-the WPers am can think of right now are Age and SKOREAPV83,quite a few people have wanted to learn it to.


Hehe thanks for remembering me, yes im actually training to be a sign language interpreter myself, know lots of signing!

Age,
are easy to remember-are probably the best signer on here as do both Makaton and ASL!

DivaD,
am cannot speak for anyone else but self on this [because of all the different causes for non verbalism] but am find makaton easy,the signs are kind of natural because they emulate the actions of things.
Try it and see if it helps,there is a programme for children called something special on the BBC that is a load of crap-but--is all done in Makaton,if have not seen it already,have a look,think it's on the cbbc channel as well as one of the normal BBC channels.
Am was going to recommend getting a PDA or laptop to use for communicating and to craola as well,am also use a laptop for communicating but both might find this a problem as have problems with written words.
There is also PECS as another form of communication [basic pictures on cards].

ViatorRose,
the official manuals has the full signs,so if able to learn without help-they would be worth getting.


craola,
the main difference is in the type of language-Makaton is not designed to be the only communication in use,it's meant as a backup language,it can be used as the only communication-but it won't have actions for everything that want to say.
Makaton is action based and ASL/BSL are word based,eg,Makatons' signs replace actions such as needing a drink,wanting to eat, needing to use the toilet,want to go for a walk etc, and ASL/BSLs signs replace the actual words so can say anything with it.

There is big difference in the difficulty of both of them-as Makatons' signs are natural like anyway they're easier to understand for both
signer and person looking at the signs,there are up to two parts per makaton sign,whereas with ASL/BSL as are replacing full words it takes a lot of steps to go through.
ASL/BSL also cannot be understood by other people unless they know it,but have a far better chance getting makaton understood.


Hey kingdomofrats, thanks for the compliments hehe.
I go back this summer to once again return my journey into becoming a sign language interpreter. So far, I took fingerspelling, ASL1 & ASL2, deaf culture and history, basic ASL. Had to stop due to family problems, but im getting back involved with the deaf community. ITs hard to sign because your facial expression has to match that sign, and signing is all about visual, with body language and facial expressions. So i had to have extra one on one help. I had to practice 247 in the mirror, and I still can't master it very well. My whole interpreting training program is working with me. Hopefully this time I get more help, because i also just couldnt take the stress of not being able to do what they asked. As far as my signing went, im a fast signing, quick to learn, because its all visual.

Anyways sign language is defintely a good secondary support language, if you do it for like simple words, its very easy to pick up especially if your a visual learner. If your doing it to communicate with deaf people or have conversations, you have to learn to know body language, and facial expressions and learn how to challenge yourself also.


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26 Mar 2008, 12:53 pm

just asking but how about in net since its great to get support so it helps u to figth to world 8) and its great to get fellow aspie members :)


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craola
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26 Mar 2008, 5:09 pm

Im in England riverotter.

I really appreciate all the information, Im seeing my psychologist tomorrow and so im going to discuss it with her, I am really looking forward to learning whatever I choose in the end.



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27 Mar 2008, 7:35 am

craola wrote:
Im in England riverotter.

I really appreciate all the information, Im seeing my psychologist tomorrow and so im going to discuss it with her, I am really looking forward to learning whatever I choose in the end.


Cool-- BSL!!
keep us posted on what you decide to do. :)

Age1600- that is awesome that all the people in your program are working with you to help you succeed. That really says a lot about your character! I think you must really be an amazing and giving person.



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27 Mar 2008, 10:38 am

I actually like to claim American Sign Language (ASL) is my primary language. All my stupid mental health service providers and their supervisors ignorantly remind me that I'm not deaf and I can talk. That has nothing to do with it :evil:! My second cousin has a different ASD than I have, he's not deaf either, and he gets his free interpreters. For 3 years I've been out to prove that it does NOT matter what ASD one may have; those with ANY ASD deserve free ASL interpreters upon request at the expense of the non-signers in all medical & legal settings.

My auditory acuity is 15 dB gain, but that does NOT say whack about how well I understand speech. My visual acuity does is 20/30 both eyes, which is almost normal, but once again, that does NOT say whack about how well I understand language perceived visually.

In 2003 when I was last with the Deaf-Blind, I taught myself how to read sign language the way they do (by feeling it with my hands). It was very easy for me to teach myself tactile ASL because my visual & tactile systems work very well together and can recognize all details that can be perceived through both senses.

I actually find tactile ASL easier than regular ASL because the facial expressions, body language, all that is NOT as important with tactile ASL. With tactile ASL, all that must be signed into the hands of the tactile signer because he/she can NOT feel that and the signs at the same time. But...tactile ASL is only popular among the Deaf-Blind right now, and I see no end in sight to my heartache caused by the Deaf-Blind of Ohio, USA :cry: :cry: :cry:.



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09 Apr 2008, 3:42 pm

I learned last month that I'm an aspie, and I'm 25 years old.

I have a hard time expressing myself as well, and I don’t like reading and writing. I understand in my mind the ideas I want to communicate but putting that in writing takes a lot of time for me.

I started learning American Sign Language (ASL) when I was a teenager out of a personal interest, and partly because my father had the wisdom in understanding that ASL would be a good idea for me to be introduced to when I was a child. That is really the only reason I started learning ASL. I am a strong visual learner so learning ASL came easier then most things.

When I was a teenager a psychologist tested me and diagnosed me with expressive language disorder, but I know now that I really had Asperger’s all along. I at least knew I had an expressive disorder before I went to college. I had no reason to choose the ASL interpreting program at my community college, other then I really enjoyed learning sign language. It is an obvious oxymoron to have someone with an expressive disorder going into a purely expressive intensive college program. I had the support of my parents, and self-motivation to resist the warnings of my disability accommodations coordinator at the college, who failed to convince me other wise. I had taken a vocational test to help direct me to a job that was best suited for my skills and interest, and I basically flat out ignored the results, and went for a degree in ASL interpreting. It was a choice I’ve never regretted and an extremely happy I made this choice.

Against all odds, I’ve graduated from college with an associates degree in Sign language Interpreting. After graduating I got a job as an ASL interpreter and it was the best paying job I’ve ever had so far. I interpreted for one full year and quit to go back to college for a new degree, I realized I can not make a living at it and interpreting is very hard on your wrists. I truly feel my expressive disorder holds me back too much to truly give what the Deaf community needs as an interpreter. Now that I’ve learned I have Asperger’s I do not feel I should go back to ASL interpreting as my chosen profession. Over the years I’ve matured and decided to seriously think about what kind of work I am really created for and meant to do in life.

Personally what I believe based on my experience as an aspie who has learned sign language, that it has greatly benefitted me personally. Granted I didn’t know I had Asperger’s all the way up until this point in my life, but knowing I had an expressive disorder during that time had helped me seek out ASL for some reason.

For reasons that are difficult to explain, I believe ASL has benefitted me in many different ways.

Sign language has such a strong emphases on non-verbal communication. I particularly enjoy the dramatic expressive nature on ASL. Compared to how hearing people talk, Deaf people are very expressive with their body and face. It has raised my awareness of non-verbal expressions by people, for me mostly in their facial expression. In sign language a word is not complete without the facial expression that is being used as it is signed. While you sign you practice making new means with the same words, with facial expression you have changed the words meaning.

Since there is no written form of sign language, I don’t entirely believe that it will help you construct sentences on paper better. What helped me write better was when I would actually write short stories for fun. Taking an English class also helped me write better. I seriously hate writing papers for school, but I just accepted the fact that I take a long time to do homework, and they won’t let me graduate from college without this English class.

Sign language is very much a person to person interaction. I particularly enjoyed, after the part of learning what English word go with what sign, that you venture into the realm of communication that rises above words (this is the best way I can introduce this concept). Sign language uses hand shapes that are called “classifiers” that are very different from words. I can turn my hand in a shape that represents a thing, and show what happens that thing. For example, I’m not actually signing the word “car”, I turn my hand into the shape that is more or less the idea of a car. I can start moving my hand around to show exactly what the car is doing. An example would be, “the car hits a bump in the road”, my hand would mimic a car going over a speed bump. In ASL poetry classifiers are mainly used for almost everything, and it is very enjoyable to watch.

I also enjoy how emotions are expressed in sign language. In sign language you don’t have to use words to say, “I am angry” or “I am sad” or “I am happy” or any other emotion. In sign language you physically reflect the emotion using your face and body, and the actually word for angry, sad, or happy does not need to be used, but the word can be used in that moment if you want to.

I have no evidence, but I believe sign language uses a different part of the brain compared to spoken language. In a sign language class you will get to the point where the teacher with have you practice sign language with your voice off. No can vocalize what they will say. You turn off your ears basically, and in silence you try very hard to understand what the other person is communicating. That alone should be using a different part of your brain. Words become symbols or hand shapes with arm motions and the face indicating emotion, it seems to me you have to be processing that kind of information differently then spoken words.

Once I got to the fluency level of being able to interpret between a deaf person and a hearing person, something very interesting happened to me. I was not required to communicate my thoughts anymore, I just needed to listen to what a person is saying exactly and duplicate that in the other language. Since I’m not expressing myself, as I interpret, I’m expressing a voice in my ear, or the ASL right in front of me, the result being I was being very expressive without even realizing it. The interpreting processes seemed to bypass whatever part of my brain that is holding me back expressively. I don’t know if this is unique to me, but that only happens if I’m interpreting for the words of someone else, not when I’m trying to express myself, can I be my most expressive. Interpreting is an extremely complex activity for the brain and for a short period of time will fatigue anyone.

All in all, I believe sign language can help anyone utilize more methods of communicating then can be provided in the English language. Hopefully I’ve been able to help explain why I believe that.

For me, ASL just helps. I still don’t understand a lot of social behavior and innuendos. I still hate writing papers for class. It’s still hard for me to get to know anyone. It takes me a long to get used to individuals I don’t know and people I have gotten to know, like my college roommates. And similar to what other people have said here, I’ve spent over 2 hours writing this post, but I felt I should contribute here anyway no matter how long it took me to write this. Plus, ASL is something I know a lot about.