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matsuiny2004
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DeaconBlues
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23 Mar 2008, 10:20 pm

Yeah, what are multiple reproducible, peer-reviewed scientific studies against a few people's intuitions about vaccines? Sure, there's been no change in autism rates since the formulations were changed; sure, the claims of an "epidemic" are comparing numbers from today against twenty years ago, when there were no HFA or Asperger's diagnostic criteria - but what are mere facts, against what people feel?


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sinsboldly
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23 Mar 2008, 11:57 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
Yeah, what are multiple reproducible, peer-reviewed scientific studies against a few people's intuitions about vaccines? Sure, there's been no change in autism rates since the formulations were changed; sure, the claims of an "epidemic" are comparing numbers from today against twenty years ago, when there were no HFA or Asperger's diagnostic criteria - but what are mere facts, against what people feel?


wait a minute! in that plethora of hyperbole did you say there's been no change in autism rates since the formulations were changed

??

well, that certainly changes a lot of things, doesn't it?

Merle



DeaconBlues
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24 Mar 2008, 12:39 am

sinsboldly wrote:
DeaconBlues wrote:
Yeah, what are multiple reproducible, peer-reviewed scientific studies against a few people's intuitions about vaccines? Sure, there's been no change in autism rates since the formulations were changed; sure, the claims of an "epidemic" are comparing numbers from today against twenty years ago, when there were no HFA or Asperger's diagnostic criteria - but what are mere facts, against what people feel?


wait a minute! in that plethora of hyperbole did you say there's been no change in autism rates since the formulations were changed

??

well, that certainly changes a lot of things, doesn't it?

Merle

Well, now, that's difficult to say. Every "analysis" I've seen in support of this "epidemic" uses 1990 as a baseline, which makes it a year too early for the ICD-10, and four years too early for the DSM-IV. Then, of course, there's the delay between publication of the new standards, and their adoption by the actual doctors concerned - there were still psychologists diagnosing homosexuality as a "mental disorder", per DSM-II, well into the Eighties.

The "formulations" to which I referred were, of course, the vaccine formulations, changed as they were in response to the (later retracted) claims of danger from thimerosal. As has been mentioned before, both the state of California and the nation of the Netherlands ceased using thimerosal-preserved MMR vaccines in 1999; yet the rate of increase of autism diagnoses, supposedly dependent on this very factor, did not change. (Of course, the anti-vaccine crowd immediately seized on other items, changing anew as each new claim is discredited...)


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sinsboldly
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25 Mar 2008, 9:51 am

Goodness, Deacon. . .it appears no one else is wanting to discuss your issue, not even the OP.

maybe we are onto something!

Merle



TrubPotto
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25 Mar 2008, 6:05 pm

Why has there been all this hyperbole about vaccines as a source for autism? It doesn't even sound intuitive! Why WOULD a vaccine cause this neurological change anyway?

I'm also glad to hear there are people out there challenging this idea of an autistic "epidemic." I've always thought that was pretty ridiculous, as if it doesn't occur to medical researchers that improved methods of diagnostics wouldn't actually skew the numbers...



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17 Sep 2015, 2:29 am

Very interesting link OP.

I feel considerable sympathy for the Wright's daughter, so manipulated and gagged by them. (Of course we can't feel empathy for anyone!) - sarcasm.

My guess is that she is terrified of them and controlled by them, held in their power. That's what people with narcissistic personality disorder tend to do - they love to exercise power and control over other people, to pull their strings as if they were puppets.

The evidence mounts. You have to wonder...



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17 Sep 2015, 11:48 pm

My wife said she thought she had heard how Rand Paul had also made an idiotic statement about autism and vaccines, saying that a seventeen year old who had never been autistic got vaccinated, then suddenly became autistic. If she heard right, then apparently it's stupidity among the GOP hopefuls that's epidemic.


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18 Sep 2015, 12:15 am

Genius is limited, stupidity has no bounds...



naturalplastic
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20 Sep 2015, 11:07 am

I hope you all are aware that this is seven plus year old thread.

But for exactly that reason its interesting that Trump got in trouble for spouting this same autism-vaccine link idea that he spouted again way back then (long before the current presidential campaign season).



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12 Jun 2016, 8:34 pm

Robert Kennedy also believes there is a link based on data he had available at time. Is he a racist or a kook or uneducated?
media and Establishment sure hate him since he turned on them and caused a fuss about thermoisol after seeing studies not meant for public. And have been working to discredit him since. Oh yeah everything he does is good, but THAT. HE went off the rails. He went on drugs. Etc. Even recent he has two different terrible biographies by people never even around him.

As for research data... without a human it is never 100% accurate.
Ethics cannot allow it though infirm children were the test subjects of vaccine back in the day with HORRIFIC side effects before a "safe measles" was found.

And I find humor when the autobelievers in the religion of science talk about sooo many research studies. Like more done by same motivated groups is better. Even in my recent memory there had been "studies " that say Blacks are Inferior, Should I believe them because Laureates and Phds did sooo many studies? and Governments?

Do you know there were more on that subject with that result than vaccine safety concerning autism link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ontroversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

https://mightyminnow.wordpress.com/2007 ... a-pioneer/

http://www.icr.org/article/darwins-teac ... feriority/

http://judgybitch.com/2013/05/20/harvar ... -is-wrong/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 94898.html

Look how recent a lot of that is.

Work by Charles Murray,

http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media ... out_human/

all peer reviewed so it must be incontrovertible fact.... lel


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naturalplastic
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14 Jun 2016, 2:20 am

gingerpickles wrote:
Robert Kennedy also believes there is a link based on data he had available at time. Is he a racist or a kook or uneducated?
media and Establishment sure hate him since he turned on them and caused a fuss about thermoisol after seeing studies not meant for public. And have been working to discredit him since. Oh yeah everything he does is good, but THAT. HE went off the rails. He went on drugs. Etc. Even recent he has two different terrible biographies by people never even around him.

As for research data... without a human it is never 100% accurate.
Ethics cannot allow it though infirm children were the test subjects of vaccine back in the day with HORRIFIC side effects before a "safe measles" was found.

And I find humor when the autobelievers in the religion of science talk about sooo many research studies. Like more done by same motivated groups is better. Even in my recent memory there had been "studies " that say Blacks are Inferior, Should I believe them because Laureates and Phds did sooo many studies? and Governments?

Do you know there were more on that subject with that result than vaccine safety concerning autism link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ontroversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

https://mightyminnow.wordpress.com/2007 ... a-pioneer/

http://www.icr.org/article/darwins-teac ... feriority/

http://judgybitch.com/2013/05/20/harvar ... -is-wrong/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 94898.html

Look how recent a lot of that is.

Work by Charles Murray,

http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media ... out_human/

all peer reviewed so it must be incontrovertible fact.... lel


So what is your point?



gingerpickles
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14 Jun 2016, 4:52 pm

Oh how cute.. pretend obtuse for response
Here ..after all walls of text CAN be hard for those that only scan read:

gingerpickles wrote:
As for research data... without a human it is never 100% accurate.


Should I believe every peer study as unchangeable in stone fact? (especially in newer sciences)
Specially them because Laureates and Phds did sooo many studies? and Governments?


My example for point was researcheven up to 20th century and beyond that claims black thinking is less and they are intellectually inferior to most other races... and btw has never had same number of studies DISprove it


gingerpickles wrote:
all peer reviewed so it must be incontrovertible fact.... lel
[/quote]


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07 Aug 2016, 7:41 am

Gingerpickles:

Just love your phrase: "autobelievers in the religion of science"

I (and the Dalai Lama) keep trying to get people to acknowledge that today, science is as much a "religion," i.e., faith based at its core, as any other religion. Just because I prefer science to other religions, doesn't mean I can't be agnostic about its postulates. :)



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17 Oct 2016, 11:01 pm

Science simply tries the most efficient way to a solution... and the vaccine link was actually the non-reproducible speculation of a single scientist, so effectively people are believing one scientist but not hundreds.