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spdjeanne
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05 Apr 2008, 6:14 pm

Whether or not you are a Christian, if you believe that the imperative, "love your neighbor as yourself," has moral value, do you believe this is applicable to nations as well as individuals? IMO, most people think of this proverb only in terms of the individual, but I believe it has even more value when applied to national politics. . . . not that it ever has been applied to national politics.

When I think of the parable of the Good Samaritan, I think of countries like Palestine, Kurdistan, and Mexico (to name just three) as the man in the ditch. So far, it doesn't seem like any Good Samaritans have come forward. However, a lot of pious people have passed by on the other side of the road. Some have even stopped to throw rocks at them or poke them with a stick.

Like what Martin Luther King once said, we should ask ourselves not what will happen to US if we stop and help, but rather, what will happen to THEM.



skafather84
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05 Apr 2008, 6:28 pm

the best fix for the immigration situation with mexicans coming here illegally would be to help them get their government straight and crush the corruption there.


instead we get a few billion invested in a fence that won't do anything and cost us money.



why the hell do we vote these morons into office?



Awesomelyglorious
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05 Apr 2008, 7:56 pm

I disagree with the notion of a nation, but do agree that love thy neighbor as thyself as an individual should transcend national borders.



Orwell
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05 Apr 2008, 8:13 pm

The issue you run into is the availability heuristic; if we don't see them suffering then they aren't right? As long as we close our eyes, as long as the most we know of it is some pictures on TV... we have no real motivation to help.


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snake321
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05 Apr 2008, 8:43 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I disagree with the notion of a nation, but do agree that love thy neighbor as thyself as an individual should transcend national borders.


Wow, I'm rather surprised to hear you say that AG. It doesn't sound anything like the AG I've known here. Maybe your starting to develope a conscience.



snake321
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05 Apr 2008, 8:47 pm

Orwell wrote:
The issue you run into is the availability heuristic; if we don't see them suffering then they aren't right? As long as we close our eyes, as long as the most we know of it is some pictures on TV... we have no real motivation to help.


This is truely sad. But true. Hell many of our designer fashion labels are manufactored in seedy sweat shops. I mean you could argue that they choose to work there, but as I see it, they really don't have that much of a choice. They've got to feed their families too...... I'm not sure how many of those shops push children though, I couldn't imagine a child would have much of a choice, but if that falls on the parents then the parents should take responsibility....
Tommy Hillfiger is actually a nazi supporter, so it just goes to show that many of these manufactorers can be very dangerous people with lots of money to toss around.



iamnotaparakeet
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05 Apr 2008, 10:14 pm

Neighbor can mean:

From Matthew 22:39
Greek 4139
πλησίον
plēsion
Thayer Definition:
1) a neighbour
1a) a friend
1b) any other person, and where two are concerned, the other (thy fellow man, thy neighbour), according to the Jews, any member of the Hebrew nation and commonwealth
1c) according to Christ, any other man irrespective of nation or religion with whom we live or whom we chance to meet

From Leviticus 19:18
Hebrew 7453
ריע / רע
rêa‛ / rêya‛
BDB Definition:
1) friend, companion, fellow, another person
1a) friend, intimate
1b) fellow, fellow-citizen, another person (weaker sense)
1c) other, another (reciprocal phrase)

So, I would say it applies to ANY individual, but the extrapolation to groups of people may be valid as well.

Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.



skafather84
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05 Apr 2008, 10:25 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.



really? i thought it'd be the easiest thing in the world!



iamnotaparakeet
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05 Apr 2008, 10:41 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.



really? i thought it'd be the easiest thing in the world!


Is that sarcasm or do you really mean that?



spdjeanne
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06 Apr 2008, 9:49 am

Quote:
Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.


I agree that loving one's enemies is difficult, but I also believe it is even more valuable than loving people who love you back. In fact, I believe it to be "the greater good" about which theodiceans philosophize about. It is that which was embodied in Jesus of Nazareth as he denied himself on the cross both as God to sanctify and as man to justify us. However, that is a topic for a whole 'nother thread.



iamnotaparakeet
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06 Apr 2008, 10:17 am

spdjeanne wrote:
Quote:
Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.


I agree that loving one's enemies is difficult, but I also believe it is even more valuable than loving people who love you back. In fact, I believe it to be "the greater good" about which theodiceans philosophize about. It is that which was embodied in Jesus of Nazareth as he denied himself on the cross both as God to sanctify and as man to justify us. However, that is a topic for a whole 'nother thread.


I don't know about theodiceans, but this is where it comes from:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Mat 5:43-48 KJV)



spdjeanne
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06 Apr 2008, 4:15 pm

Quote:
I don't know about theodiceans


A theodicean is a person who attempts to create a theodicy. A theodicy, of course, is the attempt to justify by reason the presence of Evil in the world with an all powerful loving God. In other words, a theodicean is someone who tries to solve "the Problem of Evil." "The Greater Good Defense" is one of the most frequently used solutions to the problem.

Thanks for the quotation. I thought it was obvious that I knew what text you were talking about when I responded to you. :D



spdjeanne
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07 Apr 2008, 9:44 pm

... and also Tibet would be a good example of a country akin to the man in the ditch.



Kilroy
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07 Apr 2008, 9:46 pm

if my neighbor was stealing potatoes, I'd rat him out to the NKVD-err the police :lol:



skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 9:50 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Jesus even commands us to love our enemies, which at times is very difficult.



really? i thought it'd be the easiest thing in the world!


Is that sarcasm or do you really mean that?


it was light-hearted sarcasm. i think everyone realizes that it's hard to even tolerate your enemies rather less love them. :P