27 Apr 2008, 2:14 pm
Joelsuf wrote:
I constantly ask my religious friends to give me an honest and intelligent reason why you should pick a religion, or why theirs is true.
Compare above statement with this one:
Joelsuf wrote:
Religion causes wars. Religion says war is ok. Religion used to condemn people of different skin tone and cause racial bashings. Religion condemns homosexual people and causes gay bashings. Religion makes you cough up money (through collection plates, selling of merchandise like bibles, games, movies and books, or through their requirements of being a part of that religion such as scientology where you have to give up 50% of your pay check or mormonism where you have to give them 20% of EVERYTHING you own).
You want reason for religion,but then you negatively label religion (in general),and in a sense you already demonstrated that you don't want any reason for religion,and that your question from above is purely rhetorical.
"Give me honest and intelligent reason for religion,so that I can deny that this reason is honest and intelligent" is most likely rationale for above statement(I believe).
Legato wrote:
First of all, there has not been a true Communist society on the face of the planet that has lasted more than a couple weeks.
That only depends on your personal definition of Communism.
Self professed Communist societies lasted for decades,and some (like North Korea) still exist today.
Legato wrote:
I assume by "communism" you mean the Soviet Union and Stalin's rule?
Communism as official state ideology starts with Vladimir Lenin,not Stalin.
Legato wrote:
If so, Stalin did not declare war against anyone, it was Hitler that declared war on Stalin, violating their pact.
Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_ord ... nd_in_1939
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkhin_Gol
Legato wrote:
It is true that Stalin did kill many of his own people in purges, but this had nothing to do with religion, it was because Stalin was a FASCIST DICTATOR!
Off course not....
Mao was also a 'Fascist dictator',this has nothing to do with religion:
http://www.tibet.com/whitepaper/white7.html
Quote:
The Chinese Government pronounced:
The Chinese Communist Party considers that its ideology and that of religion are two forces that cannot co-exist and occupy the same spot at the same time. ... the differences between the two (ie, science and religion) can be likened to those between light and darkness, between truth and falsehood. There is absolutely no possibility to reconcile the mutually-opposed world views of science and religion.
This Communist Chinese view was all-pervasive. In Mao Zedong's own words, "... but of course, religion is poison. It has two great defects: It undermines the race ...(and) ret*ds the progress of the country. Tibet and Mongolia have both been poisoned by it."
By the middle of the 1950s, the Chinese authorities realised that religion was the principal obstacle to their control of Tibet. Therefore, from the beginning of 1956, a so-called "Democratic Reform" was carried out, first in Kham and Amdo, and later (in 1959) in Central Tibet. Monasteries, temples, and cultural centres were systematically looted of all articles of value and then dismantled.
The Chinese Communist Party considers that its ideology and that of religion are two forces that cannot co-exist and occupy the same spot at the same time. ... the differences between the two (ie, science and religion) can be likened to those between light and darkness, between truth and falsehood. There is absolutely no possibility to reconcile the mutually-opposed world views of science and religion.
This Communist Chinese view was all-pervasive. In Mao Zedong's own words, "... but of course, religion is poison. It has two great defects: It undermines the race ...(and) ret*ds the progress of the country. Tibet and Mongolia have both been poisoned by it."
By the middle of the 1950s, the Chinese authorities realised that religion was the principal obstacle to their control of Tibet. Therefore, from the beginning of 1956, a so-called "Democratic Reform" was carried out, first in Kham and Amdo, and later (in 1959) in Central Tibet. Monasteries, temples, and cultural centres were systematically looted of all articles of value and then dismantled.
As a matter of fact,Mao's statements are almost identical with statements of many 'new atheists' on this forum.
As for Soviet Union:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutio ... viet_Union
Quote:
Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks. Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water in winter until they turned to ice-pillars. In 1922, the Solovki Camp of Special Purpose, the first Russian concentration camp was established in the Solovki Islands in the White Sea [1]. Eight metropolitans, twenty archbishops, and forty-seven bishops of the Orthodox Church died there, along with tens of thousands of the laity. Of these, 95,000 were put to death, executed by firing squad.[citation needed] Father Pavel Florensky was one of the New-martyrs of this particular period.
Quote:
Anti-religious propaganda was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshippers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.
Quote:
Throughout the 1920s and 1930s the celebration of Christmas and the traditional Russian holiday of New Year (Feast of the Circumcision of Christ) was prohibited (later on New Year was reinstated as a secular holiday and is now the most significant family holiday in Russia).
All this,off course have nothing to do with religion....
Legato wrote:
Note: In a true Communist Democracy, there are obviously no dictators.
Note:In a true Christian society,there is obviously no violence.
Legato wrote:
The supposed "communism" that existed was warped from Marx's and Lenin's teachings.
There is also a "Christian communism":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism
But violent,oppressive Communism known to most of us was inspired by something else...
As Lenin once said:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... lenin.html
Quote:
Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.
Vladimir Lenin
Vladimir Lenin
Legato wrote:
Edit: Before anyone makes the ignorant comment about Hitler being atheist, Hitler was a Catholic and had the support of the Vatican in eliminating the Jews.
Hitler was baptized as Catholic,in same manner that Joseph Stalin was baptized as Orthodox,or Richard Dawkins was baptized as Anglican.
I believe that Hitlers 'religion' was closer to Wicca then to traditional Christianity.
Here is about Hitler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitl ... us_beliefs
Quote:
Joseph Goebbels, for example, notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." Albert Speer reports a similar statement: "You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
Quote:
In the beginning Hitler was opposed to state atheism, which for example was part of the political system of the Soviet Union, but he nevertheless desired a religiously neutral state system, at least during the years of his dictatorship.[35] He feared the political power that the churches had, and did not want to openly antagonize that political base until he had securely gained control of the country. Once in power Hitler showed his contempt for religion and sought to eliminate it from areas under his rule.
Quote:
Within Hitler's Nazi Party some atheists were quite vocal especially Baldur von Schirach, Arthur Axmann and Martin Bormann.
Legato wrote:
More precisely, the Vatican had a platform of non-involvement; though that's not to say they didn't like the idea.
Sweden had platform of non-involvement...though that's not to say they didn't like the idea...
28 Apr 2008, 3:35 am
29 Apr 2008, 12:49 am
29 Apr 2008, 1:54 am
AngelUndercover
Velociraptor
Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 408
Location: somewhere else
02 May 2008, 8:50 pm
I was raised in a religious family - actually, my mom's religion was different from my dad's, but my mom raised me with her religion (Tibetan Buddhism). I later became a Christian, then ended up miscellaneously spiritual. So I was raised by religious parents but also found God on my own 
There are a lot of people in my family who are strongly religious (my mom is living in a monastery now, for instance); I've wondered if the propensity for it is genetic. I know religion has always interested me.
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